Mangrove Plant for Sump (Experiement) For Nutrient Export

[Wally.B]

Folks,

After overhauling my new sump room , I am way more organized to do the experiments I've been wanting to do for years.

If you read my other Threads, you've seen my:

- LED Lighting projects
- My Tank Disasters (A/B Overdose) & (Copper Contamination Crash)
- Tigger Copepod Farm Project
- Apex XML Query Script programming Project
- Apex IO input BreakOutBox booster (on Neptune Forum...Once done, will be posted on ReefCentral)

.... and now I'm sharing my Mangrove Plant Project.

Before I start, here is the background for being interested in trying Mangrove plants as a nutrient export....

Since I have had algae problems in both my tanks (still do in one), I've always been interested in reducing nutrients in my tanks.

I solved my SPS tank algae problem, by boosting circulation to the Max that my overflow could handle. It worked!!

I still have algae problems in my kitchen tank, but boosting the return circulation will be costly since my Sump room is in basement, and Kitchen tank is 1 floor up.
I'm already running on a Supreme Mag 18, so that's something I'm saving to upgrade some day.
All I've done with that tank is added a couple of powerheads, and started controlling them with the Neptune Apex . That has slowed the algae down, but not enough.

Planning to try the new Maxpect Gyre Generator Water pump. It arrived today in the mail.
Stay tuned, I'll put up a post on that once I get it set up and running.



I wanted to try something in parallel, like growing macro algae, a reverse lighting refugium.
However easiest and quickest appeared to to try an put Mangrove plants into my sumps.

This is the experiment I did....

THE MANGROVE PROJECT (Experiment):



A couple of month ago, the 7 Mangrove plant I bought on Ebay (From Hawaii) arrived. I got the 7 plants for $7. (Shipping cost me $25 to Canada).

Having no experience in raising Mangrove plants, I didn't want to ruin all 7 of them, so I split them up into an controlled experiment.

1) Plant #001 & #002 were put into jars, filled with Skimmer Scum, and under florescent lighting. Watered with Fresh Water mist.
2) Plant #003 was also in a jar, but just filled with clean salt water. Lighting was in-directly lighting from my tank.
3) Plant #004 went into my SPS TANK sump. Watered with TOP OFF water.
4) Plant #005 went directly into my MIX TANK sump. Water the same.
5) Plant 006 & 007 went to my brother In Law, for him to try in his sump.

I was mostly counting on Plants #001 and #002 to do the best. Since I was actually watching and caring for them. Nothing was happening, but at least the plant were not dying.

I kind of thought this would take many more months, or possibly this wouldn't work out, since I read that some folks haven't had success with their mangroves.

Today while moving around my media in my sump, I noticed the plant was stuck. It was stuck to my ChemiPure Media Bag. That's went I noticed the root had pierced the bag and had grown in. I was thrilled and put this together.


Experiment Results are pretty clear.


Enjoy this Post.

Wally B.

I learned from this experiment. Mangrove Plants plant DO grow in sumps, much better than outside controlled setups that I did!! Why they grew better than in the Bottle with lighting and fresh water misting (I don't know). Maybe circulation provided oxygen. Maybe one of you readers knows. Please share.

Whatever the reason...

I'll now be confidently putting all my plants into my sumps. I think based on the clue my plant gave me by growing into the media bag, is that I should put them some kind of substrate (an old media bag, or some sand from my tank), so the roots have something to attach to. This will also to protect them from growing roots into my equipment, like pumps etc.

I'll be putting more plants into my kitchen tank sump (where the winner Plant #005 did best) where I have my algae problem , . That may help. We'll see...

One last note. The winning plant was located after my skimmer in he flow path of my sump. I'll be putting the extra plants just where the return flow drops, before the skimmer. Where highest nutrient levels should be. (But it's farther away from the lights).

The experiment continues...


Hope you enjoyed my experiment.

Wally B.

 

[slief]

While mangroves do consume nutrients, their slow growth lends them not very useful for nutrient reduction. I keep a handful of mangroves myself but do so more for the aesthetics than nutrient removal. Chaeto and other macro is far more beneficial for nutrient export as it grows faster and with regular pruning, you are actually exporting the nutrients from the system as opposed to consuming them within the system. Either way, you would need a massive quantity of mangroves for them to be worthwhile in removing a reasonable amount of nutrients.

In my display refugium, I grown them suspended so their roots can create little shelters. These were recently moved into a larger display refugium. The goal is for their roots to grown down into the substrate creating little mangrove root caves.

In my main refugium, I grow them in the DSB. The ones in my display refugium were moved from the refugium below.

 

[d2mini]

OP, nice experiment! Very interesting to see the different growth rates.

Scott, how long have your mangroves been suspended?
I was doing the same with the same plans as you, but found out that after about a year or a little more, there is a good possibility they will go downhill. They really need to be planted to get the nutrients they need for long term health.


Here's a great Mangrove write up on nano-reefs...
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/332527-mangrovesaquariums-and-you/

 

[slief]

OP, nice experiment! Very interesting to see the different growth rates.

Scott, how long have your mangroves been suspended?
I was doing the same with the same plans as you, but found out that after about a year or a little more, there is a good possibility they will go downhill. They really need to be planted to get the nutrients they need for long term health.


Here's a great Mangrove write up on nano-reefs...
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/332527-mangrovesaquariums-and-you/

Two were wedged in a rocks with the roots exposed for about a year in my original display fuge. This display fuge is about a month old as I upgraded my 30g display fuge to a 60g display fuge. The other one was buried in the sand.

That said, there is a good read in The Book Of Coral Propagation Volume One by Anthony Calfo. On pages 30-32, mangrove propagation is discussed extensively including growing them suspended and even training the roots. From what I have read they will grow just fine suspended. Eventually the roots will grow down into the substrate and bury themselves. In the month or so that I have had mine suspended, the roots are starting to head down towards the sand. One thing that is mentioned in the book is that it's best to start with a new mangrove pod if you want to suspend it as mangroves that were grown in substrate and moved to suspended don't do as well as the white roots don't like the light. My roots white are covered with macro so they aren't really exposed anymore and the mangroves are sprouting new leaves since I hung them. Either way, mangroves are kind of disposable so if I have any issues, I can always start over. They grow reasonably quick for me but like I said, one has been uprooted for upwards of a year and they all seem to do just fine but I also have what I consider to be a high nutrient system given my heavy daily feedings.

 

[d2mini]

Two were wedged in a rocks with the roots exposed for about a year in my original display fuge. This display fuge is about a month old as I upgraded my 30g display fuge to a 60g display fuge. The other one was buried in the sand.

That said, there is a good read in The Book Of Coral Propagation Volume One by Anthony Calfo. On pages 30-32, mangrove propagation is discussed extensively including growing them suspended and even training the roots. From what I have read they will grow just fine suspended. Eventually the roots will grow down into the substrate and bury themselves. In the month or so that I have had mine suspended, the roots are starting to head down towards the sand. One thing that is mentioned in the book is that it's best to start with a new mangrove pod if you want to suspend it as mangroves that were grown in substrate and moved to suspended don't do as well as the white roots don't like the light. My roots white are covered with macro so they aren't really exposed anymore and the mangroves are sprouting new leaves since I hung them. Either way, mangroves are kind of disposable so if I have any issues, I can always start over. They grow reasonably quick for me but like I said, one has been uprooted for upwards of a year and they all seem to do just fine but I also have what I consider to be a high nutrient system given my heavy daily feedings.

Cool, hopefully it works out for the best.
I would be interested to see.

I had mine buried originally (about a year), then when transferring to a new tank I suspended them. All the tiny fibrous roots ended up disappearing and were replaced with long, thick roots (like we both wanted). They seemed to be doing really well. After about a year, I noticed much less leaf growth and finally some started dying. Then i tore it down in preparation for my new build so not sure how the rest would have done long term.

 

[Raul-7]

Any research on how much NO3/PO4 they remove?

In FW, there's much more research regarding this like - Water lettuce or Water hyacinth are the best at nutrient export.

Not sure if the same has been done in SW.

 

[Wally.B]

Plant #6 & #7

Plant #6 & #7

After posting this Thread, my brother in law sent me a pic of the two plants I gave him. PLant #6 & #7.

His Mangroves were both in his sump, and his tank has very high nutrients.

Notice his got much bigger roots, and clear winners in the grow contest.

I don't know the answer to the previous post on how effective these Mangroves are.

However they do add character to my sump, and they certainly can't hurt removing whatever waste they do (efficiently or not) compared to Macro Algae.

I did have Macro Algae years ago, and it got out of control. And took over my 2nd tank. Not an issue, it was just a water buffer tank on the same sump as my main tank.

The only negative thing about Macro Algae based on my experience, is that ever so often they would all of a sudden release it's Choroplyl (whatever it's called), and instantly, my tank water would turn green (freeked me out the first time) The Macro algae went white clear white and died.

No harm to my tank, and I ran Carbon, so the green would clear up.

 

[Wally.B]

I found the photo's of my Macro Alage water buffer Tank, from 2005.

Either Just before it released or just after.

Here is what my main tank looked like when Macro Release. (I think this is a shot, because numerically is a few photo's after my Macro Tank shot.

Here is an article that explains why this happens.

http://www.reefcleaners.org/macroalgae-care

 

[MarineBiased]

Fascinating stuff. Can't wait for mine tp be up and running. Great work there

 

[slief]

I found the photo's of my Macro Alage water buffer Tank, from 2005.

Either Just before it released or just after.

Here is what my main tank looked like when Macro Release. (I think this is a shot, because numerically is a few photo's after my Macro Tank shot.

Here is an article that explains why this happens.

http://www.reefcleaners.org/macroalgae-care

Holy cow!! What a nightmare. It looks like you were growing Caulerpa?
How did the tank do after that mess? Did you have a Caulerpa infestation after that?

 

[saltwater sam]

Long Roots on pods without leaves is not an indicator of health, because it has not undergone any photosynthesis and therefore has not absorbed any nutrients. The roots in the pictures were produced using the energy stored in the propagule and has close to nothing to do with the nutrient content of the water.

 

[Wally.B]

Long Roots on pods without leaves is not an indicator of health, because it has not undergone any photosynthesis and therefore has not absorbed any nutrients. The roots in the pictures were produced using the energy stored in the propagule and has close to nothing to do with the nutrient content of the water.

Hey Saltwater Sam.

Since you know your stuff. Would you know why my mangrove plants are not spouting leaves, even though roots keep growing. There are all exposed to lights. Couple very close to MH lights. Do the tops need to be sprayed with Fresh water, like rain. Or would they get enough water from their roots via Salt Water.

Or do the roots need to get long enough, to sustain leaves?

 

[saltwater sam]

The roots need to be anchored, either in substrate or rock. In nature, the propagules don't sprout until they've come to rest on a beach or some other surface. Once the roots are planted, they'll start sprouting small hair-like roots which are the kind of roots that absorb nutrients. Once this happens the leaves will start growing and the plant will be able to start producing its food as well as start uptaking nutrients.

 

[bbaz123456]

You can plant them but certainly do not have too. It just takes a while to sprout leaves, up to a few months.

 

[bbaz123456]

This was taken a few years ago. Took about 3 years to get that size and have been going another 2, completely suspended.

 

[saltwater sam]

For 3 years growth, those plants barely have any leaves or branches. That's because all the energy is being put into growing roots instead of leaves. The roots do not make the food for the plant, the leaves do. Those thick roots do not absorb nutrients, they are solely for structural support. If your goal is to grow happy healthy plants that have a decent rate of growth, you're going to want the roots in substrate of some kind.

 

[Wally.B]

So here is an update. Around 2 months after I started this Thread.

All plants roots continue to grow but today I noticed something new.

One of my Mangroves has started to leaf. Only 1 significantly.

Can someone explain this?

The tank that the mangrove is in, had a fish disease that killed all my fish. So I am running fallow (week 2). I decided to remove all corals, and denutrify my tank. No feeding. Tank cover in darkness, to kill off algae on rocks, before I start tank few months from now.

I kind of think since the tank no longer has nutrients to keep the roots growing. Plant is reaching for another source to grow. Light, by growing leaves. What's weird is the plant is in near darkness, since tank is wrapped in garbage bags, and cover in cardboard on top.

Other plants in nutrient load tanks have zero leaf improvment. The 2nd plant in sump of this nutrient free tank is also showing sign of leaf start.

Here is the plant under cardboard cover of Nutrient depleted tank.

Any other explainations? Or am I correct. Lack of nutrients trigger leaf growth early.

 

[Wally.B]

Here is a update. (May 2015) (6 Months from the start of this experiment/thread)

This is Plant 002.

The rest of the plants are similar, just his one was easy to pull out. The roots do shoot and get tangled into things like Carbon baggies, floss, so if you don't want that. Keep them away.

This plant has been sitting in my Overflow, under 250W MH lights.

I'm having TOO LOW nutrient problems in the tank for my SPS corals, due to TOO FEW Fish.

Really doubt the problems is because of my Mangroves.

 

[itri4ever]

My mangroves have been growing for over a year and have doubled in size....although I have grown mine in freshwater. But it does take a very long time for them to grow leaves.

 

[mclain75]

Here's my Mangrove forest, They will be 3yrs old in July!