Mantis laying on it's back, no good?

[Dave Legacy]

Hey,

My L. maculata decided to go into hiding and reduce all activity a few days ago. Wasn't even poking it's head out to see what was going on which I thought was kind of odd, but then again I've only had him for two weeks. Since I've had him he's had some pretty good meals and is well fed so I was thinking maybe he was going to molt.

Today I found him laying on his back in the middle of the tank. I touched him with a feeding stick and he rolled back over and went back to his hide-out. However, he's still on his back sometimes in the burrow and then makes his way back into the open as well. When on his back his paddles are going and he doesn't seem to have any trouble getting back into his burrow when provoked. I also tried to feed him a small piece of cockle and although he appeared to see it, was not interested.

I also found a piece of shell, is it called a cuticle, that seems to have come off his head. It's a fairly large piece and is clear in coloration. Might this all be part of the molting process, maybe he's having complications? Or might this be death staring him in the face?

I had a mini-cycle occur when I got him. I've been doing very frequent water changes to keep the water the NH3 and N02 down. The NH3 is now non existant and the N02 is at about 1.0ppm which is still my main concern. I'm about to do another 50-75% Water Change and hope this all blows over, but in the mean time can anyone confirm what this action is?

Thanks in Advance,
Dave

 

[rudyistaken]

I have a mantis that comes out in the open and lays on his side to molt. First time I thought he was dead, but sure enough he molted. Same things you are describing.

 

[Dave Legacy]

How long does the actual act of molting usually take?

 

[noschmo]

He was just catching some rays on his underside. Equal tanning exposure.

 

[Gonodactylus]

The major issue her is whether the animal molted. It sounds like you found the carapace - trapazoidal, flat piece that covers the thorax. The question now is where is the rest of the molt skin. They will sometimes eat the soft parts, but a Lysio cannot eat the raptorial appendages. If he successfully molted, they must still be in the tank. If he only partially molted, the game is over. If stomatopods don't molt completely in at most a few minutes, they rarely survive. It has to do with the build up of hydrostatic pressure to split the old cuticle, lubricating fluid that forms between the new and old cuticle, and the initiation of the tanning process that hardens the new cuticle.

As for lying on its back motionless, this is not unusual for Lysios. More than once I have reached into a tank to remove a dead animal only to have it startle me "by coming back to life". In their burrows, these animals can turn their metabolic rate way down and remain motionless for hours - a good strategy in a sealed burrow with very low oxygen titers. When molting, they often do this. What else could they do, they can hardle move, the burrow is sealed, and it will be days or even weeks before they can feed.

Bottom line - look for the rest of the molt skin and don't give up yet.

Roy

 

[Dave Legacy]

Roy,

I glanced into my tank today to see how things were going the mantis is on it's back, under the rock, and hardly moving, which evidently isn't a big deal. So I started to look around for more pieces of old cuticle (which is very hard to see) and stumbled across some pieces that seem to have come off of his tail.

Here's the thing, his display tank is still in the works and guy is currently in a 20G tall with only a few inches of sand and a rock I was hoping he'd use to find shelter... which he did. He burrowed under the rock and has a pretty decent sized opening under there. I'm wondering if there are more pieces of molt in there, but don't want to disturb him. I also want to point out that I have what looks like cloudy white film on the inside glass of the tank and on the rock. I'm assuming that's mucus?

It sounds like he might be having complications. Is there anything else I can do for it, and how could this have been prevented?

 

[Dave Legacy]

I'm back from my search, the mantis is now upright under the rock and aware of my proding around it's tank. I found abdomen segments but haven't found anything else yet.

 

[Gonodactylus]

There really isn't much to be done at this point but wait and see what happens. The exoskeleton seems to be scattered around, so perhaps it is all shed. Are the raptorial appendages on the animal intact? Lysios frequently have trouble properly shedding them and if they don't successful come off, the raptorial appendages will be lost. They can grow them back, but it takes three molts and 6-9 months.

Roy

 

[Dave Legacy]

Roy,

The raptorial appendages are still intact. I haven't moved the rock to see if there is any molt skin in there because I don't want to disturb it. Do their colors get brighter after molting? When it was out in the open last night it seemed that it's colors were more vibrant than they had been last week... might just be my imagination.

I'll keep an eye on out and just see what happens. Don't offer food until he starts hunting again?

 

[Gonodactylus]

Yes, colors do seem brighter after molting.

The animal will not feed for days. No reason to rush it.

Roy

 

[Dave Legacy]

Thanks for all the expert advice, Roy!

Last night I noticed the mantis fidgeting around a bit and saw that it pushed a great deal of molt skin out of the burrow and into the open. I haven't pulled it out for inspection yet because I didn't want to disturb his work in progress. It seems as if things might work out, we'll see.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[inwall75]

WOO HOO!!!

I lost a mantis due to an unsuccesful molt. He was doing just like you described. I even tried to help with a feeding stick and some tweezers after a while. I didn't want to discourage you so I kept my mouth shut.

I'm glad that your little guy pulled through.

 

[Dave Legacy]

Unfortunately my L. maculata didn't make it. All was looking well, molt skin was popping up all over the tank and he even appeared to be in better condition. This morning my wife called me at work to inform me that it was dead. I just got home and checked it out, sure enough... toast.

So I decided to dig around and see what I could find. There was a lot more molt skin in it's burrow along with both of the molted raptoral appendages. It probably took him days to molt so I'm sure that's why it died.

Is this very common with Lysios? I'd really like to try out another one but I'm a tad discouraged with stomatopods right now, but I need to get back on the horse. Is it something that I did wrong? I noticed that I still have a low N02 spike that's taking a really long time to go away, it's about .50ppm.

As always, thanks again for the advice.

 

[Gonodactylus]

If I remember correctly, the animal molted not too long after you got it. Typically, these are fairly tough animals that tolerate aquarium conditions fairly well, but stress before a molt could be the problem.

Roy

 

[Dave Legacy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7945340#post7945340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gonodactylus
If I remember correctly, the animal molted not too long after you got it. Typically, these are fairly tough animals that tolerate aquarium conditions fairly well, but stress before a molt could be the problem.

Roy

He started going into his molt cycle almost exactly 1 week after I obtained it. Before that he was at the LFS for at least 3 months... I'm assuming it was due and when it got into a tank with room to move around and a place to hide it decided to make it's move.

I'll try again. Hopefully I'll find another Lysio.

 

[inwall75]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

 

[Dave Legacy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7945730#post7945730 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by inwall75
I'm very sorry for your loss.

Thanks, Curt. I seems to have been a whole lot of bad timing. I'm not going to let it discourage me either. I went to get 3 very small Green Chromis to keep my cycle up until I can find a new mantis.

 

[30mini]

In a 20 gal tank, I think you should go for a P. Ciliata if you like the spearers!! If not, then try to find a G. Smithii to put in there! Both are beautiful, and active. The P. Ciliata isn't as active as the Smithii, but still is beautiful!
I am also sorry for your loss! When I lost my N. Wennera due to my roomates not taking care of him and leaving food in the tank while I was on vacation, I was devastated, and even gave a funeral to the little guy (My wife thought I was crazy!) Good luck with your next adventure, and keep us posted on how you do! We are here to help!

 

[rudyistaken]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

I agree that you should go with a ciliata. I love mine they are definately cool smashers.

 

[30mini]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7949792#post7949792 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rudyistaken
I agree that you should go with a ciliata. I love mine they are definately cool smashers.

Just so you know... I think he ment to say that they are cool spearers. Probably a typo.