Mark's 150 gallon

[reefmutt]

Well, it looks to me like you just have to hang in there, Mark.. Keep it steady and wait it out..
You've got a couple months, I think, before things really stabalise.
Patience is one of the hardest things to have in this hobby..
And I'm with you on the drag toss party..
Seeing fewer dead or dying corals always makes you feel better..

 

[markalot]

I think Matt said drag toss party? :celeb1:

Thanks guys, trying to hold steady here while things settle out. My Miami Orchid is showing both tip burn and death on the base, but polyps are out everywhere else. Tests show everything good, KH now down to 7.6 which is a .2 daily fall. Acros that look good continue to look good, some frags showing slow improvements (I didn't check on the frags in the back yard :spin2: ).

 

[markalot]

Apparently I can't read the middle zone of the ELOS PO4 kit. P is 49 according to hanna, which puts PO4 at .15, not .08. It's the green to bluish transition right in the middle that I was mis-reading. Turned up the GFO reactor just a tad.

 

[sprite]

I'm glad you can use gfo, every time I try to run it even at less than half recommended I get stn on a couple corals.

 

[markalot]

I'm glad you can use gfo, every time I try to run it even at less than half recommended I get stn on a couple corals.

Same here actually, but at this point I'm not sure I'd notice.

I removed about a gallon of sand during a water change this morning, might as well continue the cleanup.

 

[nemodan]

Mark ...... you are not alone.

Check my last posting.......

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24379921&postcount=353

I am not going to take any actions.

I will just try to keep the system as much stable I can and .....wait.

Daniel

 

[Wrangy]

Hi Dom, thanks for the encouragement. I'm seeing some marked improvement now spying with my blue flashlight. Getting under 8KH seemed to be the magic weapon. I used a new ALk test kit which gave em the same reading so call me confused about KH. My 40 looks best right at 7KH so I think that will be my target. I used to be scared of 9, now I'm terrified of 8.

Hey you have a stunning tank and really care for your animals so I'm going to encourage away!! :fun2:
I agree 7-7.5dKH is definitely the best level to be running it at I get nervous when it starts to get near 8 lol

 

[Galaxyreef]

Nice tank!

 

[markalot]

Nice tank!

Thanks, hopefully it will be back to nice soon.

So I'm going to cover the bad news here, just so it's documented as usual. Maybe this will be the final gaff? :lolspin:

Slimer tips are stressed but no skin loss yet.

The base, however, is in full meltdown. You'll see the brown on the FTS but the base has started to recede as well. It's done this before and recovered, but always a scary time.

The blue stag keeps growing, even though some of the coral has browned.

The base has some recession but nothing big, the middle has browned but all and all looks ok.

The Lokani still looks good and is still encrusting as if nothing happened.

The Valida isn't too bad, but the base is receding again.

Miami Orchid with tip burn and some base recession.

FTS ... note brown creeping up slimer and the decimated Purple Stylo.

PO4 hit .2 with GFO on so I replaced it and really could care less how fast it drops. I moved 2 acro frags and 3 monti frags into my 40 with 0 ppb P and barely detectable nitrates and all looked better in 5 days. Makes me want to walk in front of this tank with a shotgun and put it out of my misery. :hammer:

 

[markalot]

So answer me this.

If I lower PO4 too fast in here corals tend to stress and die. If I move a coral from this tank into my 40, which registers 0 to 5 P and nearly 0 nitrates they will color up within 5 days.

Red Cap in here.

Red Cap in my 40.

Same with my dead blue digitata

Acros are not very bright in the 40 but the look super healthy. Lots of flubber and nasty softies are probably causing some stress.



:headwally:

 

[mhucasey]

I don't think it has anything to do with lower PO4, just as I don't think your issues are caused by higher PO4. The fact that you get stringy Bacterial snot throughout your tank when you dose 20ML of vinegar is a sign to me that something else is at work. I saw the exact same thing when I overdosed iron years ago. Before that I was dosing >60ml vinegar and more per day with no issues. I would examine all possible inputs of iron in your tank and put a poly filter in the sump to clear the iron that is there now.

 

[markalot]

I don't think it has anything to do with lower PO4, just as I don't think your issues are caused by higher PO4. The fact that you get stringy Bacterial snot throughout your tank when you dose 20ML of vinegar is a sign to me that something else is at work. I saw the exact same thing when I overdosed iron years ago. Before that I was dosing >60ml vinegar and more per day with no issues. I would examine all possible inputs of iron in your tank and put a poly filter in the sump to clear the iron that is there now.

Thanks for the ideas. Sending out for a Triton test of both tanks, then will run Polyfilter and see if it gives me any colors.

 

[joshky]

Good luck Mark, those results could be very interesting. You've been through a lot with your 150, lots of ups and downs, I hope can figure things out soon.

 

[markalot]

Thanks Josh,

unfortunately the tank is going into a full meltdown. Most of the slimer tips are burned now, Cousin It has dead tips, some acros unaffected, but mos tin severe stress. I point and laugh, feed the fish, give it the finger on the way back upstairs.

Polyfilter shows nothing (so far), carbon does nothing, KH 7.3, Salinity 1.024 (low, as expected), I can't find anything measurable wrong so it can just die and get it over with. My life is not such that I can babysit a full meltdown. I'll be fragging the few corals I don't have in the 40 to try and keep everything I like alive. The Lokani is high on that list, even though it looks great at the moment.

Frankly everything I DO (not much frankly) seems to make it worse, so I'm done doing.

 

[nemodan]

Correct.....STOP doing things to the tank. As you wrote.

Fix your Alk level (the one worked best at your tank) , check PO4 and NO3 with some periodicity and let the tank follow its own evolutionary process.

"Survival of the fittest" !!!

I was applying that rule in my tank. Broke it adding corals and changing conditions (i.e. salt). I am having now some issues, as you saw on my thread.

So I returned to my policy.

This is my rational "I can dedicate XX time to the tank + these are the conditions I can have (tank + fuge + media reactors with Matrix) , SO, whatever survive under the equilibrium that my tank achieve, concerning, Alk/Ca/Po4/NO3 will stay !!!!!.... the rest will , unfortunately die ".

With that rationale I recovered my tank from a situation like yours.

You will get your tank running again !!!!!!.

When I went through your situation I did cut all the burnt tips of my acros after I saw they were growing algae.

Best !!!
Daniel

Ps: and continue with your standard maintenance /WC

 

[sahin]

Return to basics. Fix alk. Keep things stable. Stop dosing extra stuff; just feed tank and carry out water changes.

Double check all parameters with a different/new set of kits. Calibrate refractometer.

Dont run GFO or GAC for a while unless the PO4 gets excessive. Under 0.08ppm is fine.

Carry out 15% minimum water changes. If you can do twice weekly 15% that will be a lot better.

Good luck. Hope things get better.

 

[afernandez]

Return to basics. Fix alk. Keep things stable. Stop dosing extra stuff; just feed tank and carry out water changes.

Double check all parameters with a different/new set of kits. Calibrate refractometer.

Dont run GFO or GAC for a while unless the PO4 gets excessive. Under 0.08ppm is fine.

Carry out 15% minimum water changes. If you can do twice weekly 15% that will be a lot better.

Good luck. Hope things get better.

What he said!

Sorry to hear your troubles mark!

Let the tank settle down and you will be back in no time

 

[markalot]

Thanks all, I really appreciate the advice and encouragement.

I got a little fed up and decided to go full monti. Reactor loaded with GFO, stripping the tank and I plan to get it stripped.

In addition:

-Dosed 3 vials of BioDigest

-Added 6 lbs of partially cured gulf live rock that arrived at my local store last week. Full of lots of goodies, and baddies I'm sure, plus extra smelly. Already colors look better and no new death, but I don't hold out much hope for any acro sensitive to a rapid PO4 drop.

The only SPS improvement I've noticed is a green bird which is poofy (scientific term) today. PO4 down to ~.04.

I understand that by tomorrow or the next day I should see some acro stress due to low PO4. So be it. I'm sick and tired of playing this game where I pretend I can run higher PO4 without consequences. It works for others, never for me. Even my LPS look better today.

 

[nemodan]

.... but I don't hold out much hope for any acro sensitive to a rapid PO4 drop.

The only SPS improvement I've noticed is a green bird which is poofy (scientific term) today. PO4 down to ~.04.

I understand that by tomorrow or the next day I should see some acro stress due to low PO4. So be it. I'm sick and tired of playing this game where I pretend I can run higher PO4 without consequences. It works for others, never for me. Even my LPS look better today.

Hi Mark

I do not understand your comment ...."I pretend I can run higher PO4 without consequences".....

I though you were always trying to achieve low PO4 within the range of ~0.04 ppm in your tank.

Nevertheless, whatever decision you have taken stay with it.

I feel so identified with your issue. If you go to my RC thread first page and from there to my Reef Santuary thread (link is there). You will see all my issues, similars like yours.

Keep pushing, all will change !!

Best
Daniel

 

[markalot]

Hi Mark

I do not understand your comment ...."I pretend I can run higher PO4 without consequences".....

I though you were always trying to achieve low PO4 within the range of ~0.04 ppm in your tank.

Nevertheless, whatever decision you have taken stay with it.

I feel so identified with your issue. If you go to my RC thread first page and from there to my Reef Santuary thread (link is there). You will see all my issues, similars like yours.

Keep pushing, all will change !!

Best
Daniel

Hi Daniel,

many seem to be able to run their tanks at > .1 PO4 but when I get that high I start to get rapid dieoff and decline. /shrug. The one thing I've never done is get PO4 really low and keep it there. Looking over my notes every time PO4 gets really low I see some stress and react by letting it rise up. I think this might be my primary mistake with this tank. Instead of letting PO4 waver I need to lock it down low and toss the corals that don't do well.

There is obviously something I'm missing and if you can't tell I'm fed up with it. The easy solution is to strip the tank with a crap ton of GFO and see what happens. There are plenty of examples of fantastic tanks running GFO and no detectable PO4.