MARS Bulk Purchases

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11419077#post11419077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefugee
If we are going to use club money for group buy, I propose that the group buy be open to ONLY club members. If we open it to non-club members, we will essential be acting as a merchant for the general public.

Actually, the IRS said BAR was basicly giving to much back to the members, ie. BUYING CLUB. Every single hobby have thier own clubs, good and bad. Some are buying clubs and the IRS knows this. Give em a reason and they'll find fault with what the club is doing and you will loose you exempt status nearly over night.

If the clubs buys product and members end up with the product, and they gave money to MARS for said product, that is MARS acting as a merchant to the members from what I have been told by people in the know.

FWIW< BAR had to accountants working with the IRS, one being a non profit accountant very familiar with the laws.

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11418875#post11418875 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrMikeB
I am not a tax attorney, but I am currently going through the myriad of tax code to secure a NPO for another project of mine. In the process I have had the distinct pleasure of working with the IRS and BoE regarding these types of issues and I can give firsthand experience on how they perceive these types of activities. In the past there have been NPOs created by shady individuals as $$$ shelters as a front to tax evasion and the government simply does not like getting paid whats due. In a post Enron world, you give them an excuse to reevaluate the NPO status, and I assure you they will be all too happy to accommodate.

Gresham, is it top secret or can you expand on what you all ran into in BAR?

talk to Bookfish, he was one of the ones involved. It was a couple years ago so I think I have forgotten some details

 

[P.Kelly]

Come on guys... This was turning out to be a great respectful debate. The kind of stuff I love to see.

Jon, your last paragraph was designed to elicit the response you got from Paul, which could have said the same thing without calling you dramatic. Both could have been better worded to convey your opinions while continuing the debate, rather than an argument.

 

[mpoletti]

ahhh...Goose fraba....

This is the MARS I have come to know and love.

There are many times I have seen GB's here on RC and the only one I participated in was the mag flake. I am very hestiant on them because they take so long and I am very spur of the moment when buying.

They serve both good and bad purposes and this topic will divide many of our members, as well as, the people who don't speak out.

What I find ironic is that if this thread was not designated as it was, group buys would continue to go on just fine. I think what comes into play here is using the MARS name as a fulcrum for these proceedings.

I do not agree that we should use the club for this, but that is my personal choice. I have no problems with GB's, just not using the club to facilitate them.

Instead of using the clubs money on this topic, Can we get some advanced speakers like "the good ol' days".

 

[kdblove_99]

I agree with alot of what Jon said. How can you agree with Propagation corals that locals might be growing and your willing to buy but you are against group buys? That doesnt add up,Sorry. Is it not still taking away from the LFS? By the way i know for a fact John carries ORA corals!

Just like making live rock and selling it, Isn't that not taking away from the LFS as well? If not then i am lost.
I never said that the LFS weren't important to me...come on, I'd think a club representative would be a little more open minded about these kinds of things without having to resort to jumping on someone's opinion and categorizing them as being part of a "very small minority" in attempt to minimalize their point of view. I agree with Jon on this also.

Pete, I didnt see it as Jons design to elicit the response you got from Paul.

But, i saw more of you coming and backing your friend more than anything.


I know Pauley and like him alot. But that doesnt mean i agree with all his views and i certainly dont expect him to agree with all of mine either

I dont think calling someones views as a dramitazation and saying they are a minority on the issue is right, Just my opinion!!

 

[pbetito]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11419569#post11419569 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shiveley
dramatization? really? I actually think it's a valid point in relation to the clubs financial impact on our LFS...member supported coral propagation, and the subsequent trades and/or sales of such items, have to have an impact on local retail sales. How can they not?

...I never said that the LFS weren't important to me...come on, I'd think a club representative would be a little more open minded about these kinds of things without having to resort to jumping on someone's opinion and categorizing them as being part of a "very small minority" in attempt to minimalize their point of view.

I realize that the focus of Public Relation in MARS seems to be directed at facilitating and maintaining relationships with the local shop keepers, but it is my "minority opinion" that this practice often clouds and/or overshadows the fact that MARS is first and foremost supported by a collective of like minded hobbyists.

politics...I guess there's no escaping them.

I deleted my earlier post because I realized that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I did not mean to call Jon personally dramatic but meant to say that that point of view was a bit over the top IMO. I said the minority based purely on the feedback we are recieving.. not to minimalize your point of view. Overwhelmingly so far the feedback has been LFS health over saving a buck. When you tie that into the facts that Gresham has pointed out including we could lose our NPO status it is an even easier decision to make. I try to be open minded and speak my mind, not my position in MARS. While I realize you feel that I minimalized your point of view by calling you a minority I also feel you did the same by stating that I feel the way I do because I am PR. I try to vote for what would be best for the majority. I will certainly be more aware of the need to be open minded. It is not personal, its what I think. I never meant to call you anything, nor do I harbor ill will towards you.

Pete please be aware I said an argument was a bit dramatic, not Jon personally. I know it seems like the same thing but I am trying to go out of my way to not to make this personal.

While your opinion is wrong Jon, I still respect you for making it

(disclaimer* ^^^ was a joke)

 

[pbetito]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11419873#post11419873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9

What I find ironic is that if this thread was not designated as it was, group buys would continue to go on just fine. I think what comes into play here is using the MARS name as a fulcrum for these proceedings.

I do not agree that we should use the club for this, but that is my personal choice. I have no problems with GB's, just not using the club to facilitate them.

I agree with Mark completely. I am not opposed to group buys..(I in fact just did one) but am opposed to the club sponsoring them. I don't feel it is what is best for the club, due to what Gresham said and BAR's situation, and it makes the club look like more of a competiton to our neighbors who are also our freinds. I feel as though we should try and keep this topic as tightly focused as possible.

 

[P.Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11419916#post11419916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kdblove_99
Pete, I didnt see it as Jons design to elicit the response you got from Paul.

But, i saw more of you coming and backing your friend more than anything.

I personally resent being associated with Paul!



Seriously, what I was trying to say is that you can go from a debate to an argument that will get out of hand quickly based upon word choice.

 

[pbetito]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11420038#post11420038 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petes97
I personally resent being associated with Paul!



Seriously, what I was trying to say is that you can go from a debate to an argument that will get out of hand quickly based upon word choice.

You were right on point Pete! If I would have simply rephrased my wording just slightly the debate could have raged on without the need for getting personal. It was my error and I apologize to the thread as a whole.

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11420029#post11420029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pbetito
I agree with Mark completely. I am not opposed to group buys..(I in fact just did one) but am opposed to the club sponsoring them. I don't feel it is what is best for the club, due to what Gresham said and BAR's situation, and it makes the club look like more of a competiton to our neighbors who are also our freinds. I feel as though we should try and keep this topic as tightly focused as possible.

Please don't just base it on what I said. That is my memory of it and while I was on the BOD at the time, I didn't deal with the IRS. Talk to bookfish I'll call him tonight and see if I was spot on

 

[kdblove_99]

Fair enough Pete.

I have just seen, well too many threads that get controversial and people just come to there friends side, just Because!

But it seems that was not your intention. SO i apologize.

 

[kdblove_99]

so can we agree group buys can be good. just keep the mars name out of it.

 

[bored4long]

good conversation

good conversation

I had a lengthy reply, but at risk of not having every word perfect to avoid offense, I deleted it all.

I'll just make a few quick points:

1. I applaud Brian for starting this conversation. I am impressed with the discussion as a whole and I think it reflects well on MARS and its participants. Kudos.

2. Knee jerk response: MARS conducting GBs is a bad idea. The only way we may be able to pull this off without an all out war between members would to pursue these GBs through an LFS channel and not online or other. There could be many benefits to this for both LFS and MARS.

3. I don't mind GBs staying as they are. Its worked just fine for the ones I've been a part of.

4. Bottom line, I ask myself 2 questions before making a purchase: 'What is the best bang for my buck?' and 'What impact will my purchase have on the environment?' (Unfortunately, neither question is, 'Do I really need this?')

 

[P.Kelly]

I always ask myself if I need it. And even if the answer is NO, I still buy it...

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11420379#post11420379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petes97
I always ask myself if I need it. And even if the answer is NO, I still buy it...

Yeah, same here usually Hmm, another hole in the head, how much :lol:

 

[shiveley]

Paul - no harm no foul, I may have been a little quick on the trigger on my end; so, I do apologize for that. We just have differing opinions on the matter, and there's nothing wrong with that (other than your opinion, that is ). Cheers, and I'll see you on Friday as previously discussed.

Pete, well, what can I say about him other than...well....no, that would probably get me banned....umm......uhh...just kidding; Pete's a great guy and I know he was only trying to defuse the situation.

I'm fine with things as they are in relation to GB's as well. The IRS situation is definitely an important consideration. I was just questioning the motivation/validity of factoring in LFS business with MARS decision making. However, I'm sure that all of this can be resolved over a pitcher or two of beer at the Christmas party!
:beer:

 

[P.Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11420955#post11420955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shiveley
Pete, well, what can I say about him other than...well....no, that would probably get me banned....umm......uhh...just kidding; Pete's a great guy and I know he was only trying to defuse the situation.

Hey, you know what they say about opinions... I should probably just keep my mouth shut when Paul and anyone go at it. Paul makes himself look like a nerd all by himself and no one needs me to interject to makes things better, er worse...

 

[pbetito]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11421082#post11421082 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petes97
Hey, you know what they say about opinions... I should probably just keep my mouth shut when Paul and anyone go at it. Paul makes himself look like a nerd all by himself and no one needs me to interject to makes things better, er worse...

I would say "nerd" is a bit of an understatement

 

[P.Kelly]

True

 

[pbetito]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11421134#post11421134 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petes97
True

Look who's talking :lol: ^^^