Matrix (and siporax) questions, to keep from derailing Sahin's thread.....

[tomae]

I use 23 liters of siporax in my sump, not like forced flow. I like to think little passive water flow it will have less oxygen in it facilitating the formation of anaerobic bacterial cultures inside and not force debris into your pores.
I know that the amount is much higher than the SERA suggests, but I also know that it can do no harm

that rock in the first part of the sump was just to acclimate a fish, is not part of filtering

 

[nemodan]

I have been thinking about getting some matrix from LFS and just making a basket out of eggcrate and chucking it in sump. Earlier it had been mention possible issues running media like this with bio pellets. Is there anyone here that is running both? Or can elaborate on the possible problems. I am not running pellets right now, as don't have the need, but the plan in future is to use the all in one biopellets when needed (see Kryz Tryc's incredible reef... That is why I am interested in them as a future option)

Egg crate will not work on the small size rocks.

This is just a place to growth bacterias. The concentration will change depending of the tank nutrients availability. If the bio pellets take it all then you will have a low bacteria population in the matrix. But why it will harm something that is an artificial rock.

I have all my matrix in a HOB fuge in bags. My nitrates after some months went to undetectable levels. I am adding now a home made media reactor to increase the amount of Matrix. Excess will not affect the system. Bacterias will be more spread and I have an extra layer of protection.

 

[M007]

I use 23 liters of siporax in my sump, not like forced flow. I like to think little passive water flow it will have less oxygen in it facilitating the formation of anaerobic bacterial cultures inside and not force debris into your pores.
I know that the amount is much higher than the SERA suggests, but I also know that it can do no harm

that rock in the first part of the sump was just to acclimate a fish, is not part of filtering

Thank you tomae, I was looking for a pic of Siporax installed in a sump, and yours looks exactly like what I was thinking about. I will construct an egg crate box for mine as planned. :beer:

 

[fessoclown]

I use 23 liters of siporax in my sump, not like forced flow. I like to think little passive water flow it will have less oxygen in it facilitating the formation of anaerobic bacterial cultures inside and not force debris into your pores.
I know that the amount is much higher than the SERA suggests, but I also know that it can do no harm

that rock in the first part of the sump was just to acclimate a fish, is not part of filtering

NIce sump!!!! What's that tank on the far right with the treys stacked in it? Behind the big A sticker?

 

[tomae]

NIce sump!!!! What's that tank on the far right with the treys stacked in it? Behind the big A sticker?

I think you should be talking about my balling container

 

[fessoclown]

Of course.... I see now that it's tape indicating levels and not treys... thanks.

 

[Giovanni]

What do you guys think about these block. Could be stacked vertically so no detritus collects.

 

[pstank1]

There are some concerns that it may leach aluminum into the tank, although it is most likely in an inert form. A bigger concern to me (i looked into using that first) is that it apparently gets pretty brittle after a while. I can be a bit like a bull in a china shop when i'm working in my sump, so I didn't want to run the risk of breaking it up.

I think it would also be difficult to keep clean unless you have plenty of mechanical filtration in place. Yes, you can pull it out and wash it off in tank water, but that's not going to clean out the small pores.

 

[SeargentSlice]

I have been slowly changing out the rock rubble in my sump with MarinePure Biofilter Media Spheres. I think the round shape is great for allowing detritus to fall below where it can be siphoned during water changes. I'm just trying it out recently and will report back with any changes/observations.

I have bin running the spheres for quite awhile well over the recommended amount and have not noticed any reduction in No3. Started carbon dosing and pulled no3 from 50 to 10 in 3 weeks I think carbon was the missing link.

 

[naterealbig]

What do you guys think about these block. Could be stacked vertically so no detritus collects.

I have bin running the spheres for quite awhile well over the recommended amount and have not noticed any reduction in No3. Started carbon dosing and pulled no3 from 50 to 10 in 3 weeks I think carbon was the missing link.

Just curious guys, is there any official data on these products? It seems the key to denitrification is pore size; too large, and you will not grow the anaerobic bacteria you need to process nitrates. The beauty of Matrix and Siporax is that you don't need a carbon source.

 

[tripdad]

If memory serves me right, I believe D2Mini uses this on his set-up with success. His thread is in reef discussion. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144250&highlight=d2mini

 

[Mael]

Just wanted to confirm on the flow amount to reactor size breakdown, I assume those are inner diameter measurements?I have .5L of matrix in a mesh bag directly below the drain pipe in the sump but also have a nextreef smr1 laying around I can use to add more, since I ran a lot less LR per gallon this build I am fighting nitrate issues with carbon dosing now but want a permanent fix. Plan on filling the reactor just confirming the diameter so I know what pump to pair with it.

 

[KingTriton1]

I personally wouldn't have matrix media inside a reactor. The reason being is what if the pump dies or the power goes off then all that bacteria inside the reactor will die.

I have my media placed in-between a baffle with a Tunze return pump which utilizes the Tunze back up SLA battery for just for this specific reason.

Also, If you put matrix inside a media bag directly below the drain pipe you will likely incur a build up in nitrates. I find it best to place the media after a filter sock and protein skimmer.

 

[Giovanni]

Well, I'm online. I was able to get about 1.5L of media in the reactor. Based on calculations of the other thread, I set the reactor to about 80gal/hr (5" diameter reactor). This flow rate seems really high. If I did it by eye I'd probably be running half as much flow through there. Anyone care to comment?

How about adding a very small layer of biopellets to the reactor for a bit of "carbon dosing" to help feed the bacteria?

 

[Mael]

hm, the bag has been there for 3 months with no buildup in that area, and nitrates have been going down, although not quickly as I have a minimal amount in there. Not sure why having the bag in direct line of water flow would cause anh increase in nitrates. Several others in here are running matrix in a reactor, there is even a guide for flow rate per reactor size....when power goes out water just sits in the reactor with no flow, same as if it was in the sump and power goes out.

 

[Giovanni]

Just to add to power failure discussion. Correct me if I am wrong but what we really want to grow is anaerobic bacteria. Limiting the water flow, thus O2 to the matrix in a reactor is to help promote anaerobic bacteria. Along that line of thought, if the power goes out, no water flow would only mean less O2 which for anaerobic bacteria is good. The only problem would be the anaerobic bacteria would not be getting fed, which they can tolerate for quite some time.

 

[KingTriton1]

Nitrifying and denitrifying Bacteria will both remain on the media. Matrix pond is used as denitrification source, however denitrification only pertains to the inner core of the media. All along the surface will remain active with aerobic bacteria. The fact that a pump is even used means it will create an environental in which aerobic bacteria thrive in.

 

[Giovanni]

From Seachems website...

"Matrix™ may be placed in any kind of filter, and is particularly effective in a canister filter.

 

[KingTriton1]

That is correct. I'm not saying that it isn't effective in a reactor by any means.

 

[Mael]

ok maybe Im missing something, if it is effective in a reactor as others have shown, and the reactor doesnt empty during a power outage, the matrix would be in the same conditions during a power outtage in the reactor as it would if placed/hung in the sump correct? It would still be submersed in water with no flow in both cases. I do see there may be an advantage to sump use over reactor in an outtage simply due to the increased water volume in the sump may be able to provide the aerobic bacteria with o2 longer than in the small space of the reactor.