d3hree
New member
lol, thanks. Neither really. The plumbing has changed and as for art?, well thats subjective I suppose.
Matt's 5000ltr Display
- Thread starter d3hree
- Start date
lol, thanks. Neither really. The plumbing has changed and as for art?, well thats subjective I suppose.
d3hree
New member
fibreglass
fibreglass
I have been speaking with a UK firm regarding Fibreglassing and they were kind enough to send me a sample.
The sample is made up of a heat insulation board, then 3 layers of fibreglass finished with a top layer of "flow coat" to finish.
The insulation board was their suggestion. Its a 12mm thick board that would prevent heat escaping through the walls of the tank. They use it extensively when creating koi ponds.
The pictures dont really show it that well but the finish is very nice. It is far more reflective that I had thought it was going to be.
Based on email discussions with them this afternoon i have decided not to go with the heat insulation board. I dont think that it will be a massive issue on an interior aquarium vs an exterior koi pond and I prefer the idea of the fibreglass and resin bonding directly with the plywood for added strength.
fibreglass
I have been speaking with a UK firm regarding Fibreglassing and they were kind enough to send me a sample.
The sample is made up of a heat insulation board, then 3 layers of fibreglass finished with a top layer of "flow coat" to finish.
The insulation board was their suggestion. Its a 12mm thick board that would prevent heat escaping through the walls of the tank. They use it extensively when creating koi ponds.
The pictures dont really show it that well but the finish is very nice. It is far more reflective that I had thought it was going to be.
Based on email discussions with them this afternoon i have decided not to go with the heat insulation board. I dont think that it will be a massive issue on an interior aquarium vs an exterior koi pond and I prefer the idea of the fibreglass and resin bonding directly with the plywood for added strength.
dave.m
Active member
The sheen of the finish won't show nearly as much when the tank is filled with water, and after several months of coralline algae growth you won't know it's there. I agree the foam is not required. Perhaps it helps them deal with irregularities in a buried pond. A sturdy plywood (1") with a fibreglass coating should hold a truck.
Dave.M
Dave.M
d3hree
New member
Agreed Dave. Yes the foam board helps with heat transfer from the water into the cooler concrete and ground when dealing with koi ponds.
I am not a fan of coraline build up in tanks, going to this effort and expense for 52" front to back would all be in vain if I allowed the coraline to cover the back wall and stop the eye removing the impression of the tank going on forever.
I wanted to make sure that the resin finish was smooth and resistant to a good scrape every now and then.
I am not a fan of coraline build up in tanks, going to this effort and expense for 52" front to back would all be in vain if I allowed the coraline to cover the back wall and stop the eye removing the impression of the tank going on forever.
I wanted to make sure that the resin finish was smooth and resistant to a good scrape every now and then.
Euler Kernighan
The "DIY Guy"
:thumbsup: that's a good decision! the insulation board doesn't appears strong.
Updates, pics?!!?
Keep going on!
d3hree
New member
Thanks to the Royal Wedding I was able to get my 2nd day off this year and so did a little more on the tank.
I battoned out the back and right walls.
..and added the plywood.
The battons were glued to the walls using grip fill, then the plywood was glues to the battons using gorilla glue. Finall I drilled through both the ply and the battons into the brick and screwed and fastened to the brick walls.
I am beginning to get a real sense of the size of the tank now. Unfortunately so is my wife as she asked if it would be a lot of work to redo it it a little smaller. I politely declined.
I had left my camera at the office so I was forced to use my iphone.
I battoned out the back and right walls.
..and added the plywood.
The battons were glued to the walls using grip fill, then the plywood was glues to the battons using gorilla glue. Finall I drilled through both the ply and the battons into the brick and screwed and fastened to the brick walls.
I am beginning to get a real sense of the size of the tank now. Unfortunately so is my wife as she asked if it would be a lot of work to redo it it a little smaller. I politely declined.
I had left my camera at the office so I was forced to use my iphone.
Hi Euler, Matt and all the RC members tuning in to this thread.
I'm Matt (not THE Matt D3HREE) but the guy comissioned to fibreglass this aquarium.
I thought I'd take a minute out to explain about the foam you see as a backing to the fibreglass system, and how fibreglass performs in this situation.
Matt is perfectly correct in saying the foam is a good insulator.
Euler is correct in saying it doesn't 'look' strong because the polyurethane faom alone is not strong. It is actually a weak material as far as strength is concerned, one could easily break it in your fingers.
Under the applications we use it within we do no consider its strength factor as it doesn't really have one. What we look at is, as Matt correctly states, is it's insulation factor. The benefits of using it within certain applications are many but are not required on this aquarium installation due to surrounding ambient temperatures within the home the aquaium is to be sited. Matt and I have discussed this and fully agree the PU foam is not necessary or beneficial for this particular build.
Bonding.
Fibreglass resin should bond well to plywood as long as there is no damp present in the plywood (which I am sure there won't be in this instance.)
IF we had decided between us that the PU foam was required the I would have used a resin based paste applied to the entire rear face of the foam to 'stick' it to the plywood. The initial suction of the paste holds the PU foam in place but it's the full cure of the paste that not only fuses into the foam but the plywood also that creates an enormously strong homogenous fix between the paste/plywood. When fibreglassing directly onto plywood it is always good practise to score it for additional adhesion. Grp or 'fibreglass' has an element of shrinkage to it during the curing process that means it tightens up as it hardens and this shrinkage can sometimes allow the fibreglass to release away from the surface it is applied to resulting in no reinforcement to the structure that it is applied to. The more porous the surface, the less likelihood of release i.e. plywood but there are temperature influences to great to go into detail here that can increase that likelihood of release but not a convern in this aquarium build.
Case study
Fibreglass can be considered to be a 'reinforcing' material. The components of any grp system alone as a water proofer or reinforcer are useless in their own right until combined and applied to the surface they are applied to correctly. i.e. fibreglass mat will not be waterproof without the addition of resin and resin will not be waterproof unless it has the hardener added to it at the correct ratios AND combined with the glass mat.
When asking grp (fibreglass) to perform a water proofing membrane the structure that it is applied to has to be built to withstand the pressures exerted to it by the volume of water in its own right. Never rely on the fibreglass to act as a substrate strong enough to hold huge volumes of water. Having said this, the grp will definitely offer massive reinforcement to the structure (timber built structure in this case) as long as the grp is laminated or laid up to the correct thickness. Once could easily apply a 0.5mm fibreglass system to an aquarium but it would not give any structural strength. A 3mm thick grp system would 'reinforce' the timber that it is applied to but the ability to withstand water pressures must be incorporated into the structure itself, one can the rely on the grp to give additional reinforcement to the structure.
Fibreglass is a widely misunderstood material that behaves in mysterious ways dependant upon its application and must be applied by experienced hands.
I hope this gives you some kind of insight to the subject of fibreglass in this application. It really is a great material with colossal strength, waterproofing abilities and it's inert which is paramount for this kind of application.
Kind regards from the UK
Matt from GRP
dave.m
Active member
Questions for GRP.Matt on fibreglass application:
1) What happens if the plywood gets wet from behind (dampness, splashing, etc.) and starts to delaminate? Shouldn't the plywood be totally sealed first before mounting to the wall and having the fibreglass applied?
2) I expect you would want to finish the fibreglass. What would you paint it with, an epoxy paint or something else?
Thx,
Dave.M
1) What happens if the plywood gets wet from behind (dampness, splashing, etc.) and starts to delaminate? Shouldn't the plywood be totally sealed first before mounting to the wall and having the fibreglass applied?
2) I expect you would want to finish the fibreglass. What would you paint it with, an epoxy paint or something else?
Thx,
Dave.M
1) I'm assuming you mean if the timber itself delaminates and not the grp delaminating from the plywood?
If timber were to start delaminating from damp/water ingress the timber will distort but the amount of movement it would take to distort/buckle/break the grp would have to be massive. Matt has the sample as you see in his pictures and will testify for the strength of the fibreglass. The fibreglass is waterproof from both sides and it would take contant contact of water over a very long period of time to attack the fibreglass from the rear face. The front face has a layer of resin called 'flowcoat' applied to it ensuring a 100% water proof barrier between the water and the fibreglass layer.
2) There is no need to paint anything onto the completed fibreglass system. The flowcoat layer is a resin, coloured black and it has an incredibly smooth and durable finish to it due to a wax being locked into it at manufacturing stage. This resin fuses with the grp layer and cannot be separated even by physical means of say a sharp blade. There isn't much that will stick to it because of this glossy, wax finish. The best thing to compare it to is a freshly waxed car bonnet, it repels water.
Having said that, coralline algae will get a hold on it eventually but it is easily scraped off as required due to the high gloss finish.
I'm 100% sure that in Matt's aquarium there won't be any splashing of the plywood, having spoken to Matt personally the planning and build quality is too good for an oversight like that to be made.
I hope that answers the questions Dave.
Matt
Euler Kernighan
The "DIY Guy"
I really enjoy this building phase, only chance to do the right thing!
wives... the same problem in entire world... just check on my thread... I put my wife to work lol :spin1:
wives... the same problem in entire world... just check on my thread... I put my wife to work lol :spin1:
Euler Kernighan
The "DIY Guy"
thanks for your explanation GRP.Matt :thumbsup:
Euler Kernighan
The "DIY Guy"
my wife working... when she was born she was gifted with the "destruction gift":
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2003931&page=2
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2003931&page=2
That's quite ok.
It's quite tricky to explain via text about the properties of fibreglass (and the polyurethane foam backing we use on koi ponds in the UK) but once you see and handle this material for a living you really begin to appreciate the colossal strength properties it has and what it's benefits are.
If there is anything else I can answer I will gladly do my best.
In the meantime here is a video of the waterproofing system being applied to a medium sized koi carp pond in the UK. The principles and materials used are the same as to be used on Matt's aquarium in the future.
Although I make it look very relaxed and easy to do bear in mind that I have done this well over a thousand times in an enormous variety of environmental conditions so don't be lulled into a sense of false security and think this is a DIY job. It CAN be done DIY but the risk of getting things wrongs is pretty high to the complete novice and it's very doubtful one could achieve a safe and smooth finish as those experienced in handling this material.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Numnshua4
All the best from the UK.
Matt
d3hree
New member
With GRP Matt kindly joining RC to respond to questions etc I thought that rather than contacting him directly with any questions I have I would post them here instead. In addition hopefully you guys might have some suggestions/insights too.
I have been working out the weir for the tank and it has occured to me that it may pose a couple of problems.
The weir will span the front to back depth of the tank, 52".
Through the base of the weir there will be two holes to allow for 3" bulkheads that will supply the 3" closed loop manifold
On left wall of the tank there will be 5 x 3" bulkheads in total, 1 will gravity feed ( hopefully) the skimmer and the remaining 2 will supply the rest of the filter. There will also be a 2" bulkhead for the surge.
There will also be 2 x holes to allow for 25mm bulkheads for 2 of the 4 OM outlets.
The base of the weir will have a notch in it to allow for the surge outlet. This was to make the outlet of the surge as high up as possible in the water column.
As you can see it is quite involved and i am wondering what will be the best way to tackle it.
1) I could assemble the weir and drill the holes before the fibreglassing gets done. I assume that the fibreglass and resin will cover the holes and I will have to cut them out again but I would hope to not have to drill them. I could use a knife of some sort maybe?
2) I could assemble the weir and have the fibreglassing done and then drill the holes. i expect this is the prefered method but i need to see if I will be able to drill the holes on the back wall once the weir is in place.
3) I could drill the holes and add the bulkheads and the fibreglassing could seal in the bulkheads even more?...applying it around their base?
a few more pictures of the weir;
I have been working out the weir for the tank and it has occured to me that it may pose a couple of problems.
The weir will span the front to back depth of the tank, 52".
Through the base of the weir there will be two holes to allow for 3" bulkheads that will supply the 3" closed loop manifold
On left wall of the tank there will be 5 x 3" bulkheads in total, 1 will gravity feed ( hopefully) the skimmer and the remaining 2 will supply the rest of the filter. There will also be a 2" bulkhead for the surge.
There will also be 2 x holes to allow for 25mm bulkheads for 2 of the 4 OM outlets.
The base of the weir will have a notch in it to allow for the surge outlet. This was to make the outlet of the surge as high up as possible in the water column.
As you can see it is quite involved and i am wondering what will be the best way to tackle it.
1) I could assemble the weir and drill the holes before the fibreglassing gets done. I assume that the fibreglass and resin will cover the holes and I will have to cut them out again but I would hope to not have to drill them. I could use a knife of some sort maybe?
2) I could assemble the weir and have the fibreglassing done and then drill the holes. i expect this is the prefered method but i need to see if I will be able to drill the holes on the back wall once the weir is in place.
3) I could drill the holes and add the bulkheads and the fibreglassing could seal in the bulkheads even more?...applying it around their base?
a few more pictures of the weir;
dave.m
Active member
Perhaps some labels would help (though I hate to mar such beautiful images). Why is the front edge of the weir tilted outwards at 45°? Many question the need for any teeth at all on the lip of the weir, but instead put a quarter-inch plastic gutter-guard mesh on the inner side of the lip to keep aquarium inhabitants out.
Dave.M
Dave.M
