Melev's new 280g Starfire tank thread

[zibba]

The CBB didn't make it. I tried placing it in some decent flow to get some water movement over the gills but it never recovered.

I've read that a death like this can occur as a side effect of cyanide (if the death is w/in 3 months - which it was). I'm not sure why the fish appeared to be so healthy for 3 months. Strange.

Anyway, thanks for your condolences.

Melev - good to see that you got that long-nose out so easily!

 

[melev]

Zibba, I'm sorry to hear about your CBB loss. They really are a gorgeous fish, and I would have thought that it being healthy and eating for 3 months to be a good sign.

For cyanide-caught fish, I thought it was a 2 month window, not 3.

 

[melev]

So my nobilis frag has been declining for the past couple of weeks. I knew there was nothing I could do about it, and accepted that it wasn't going to last much longer.

Two nights ago I saw it was RTNing. As it was expected, I just let it occur.

Yesterday morning I noticed that the tiny red tabling frag next to it was completely gone as well. Argh.

And as the day progressed, I saw indications that it was heading for my purple milli. At that point, I cut out the middleman, so to speak and removed the dead red tabling frag so that there was a big gap between the dead nobilis that the purple milli.

And during the night I watched that milli closely. An area on the backside looked suspicious. I cut it away.

Today, the RTN had traveled through most of the milli. Good grief! I ripped of 80% of the colony and left mere twigs were it was. Will any bit of this survive?

The thing is, all of this is occuring in an area that is maybe 6 square inches of space. However, all three were nice corals I really liked and enjoyed viewing and taking pictures of. That whole spot is decimated, and it just grates on my nerves that I have something that has been growing for about a year that is gone overnight.

Here's what they looked like before.

 

[jnarowe]

I wonder what it was? What I find I have to do in cases like this is remove the entire colony, frag any good pieces and QT them. This worked quite well when I had the dino attack.

 

[Stile2]

I have had several colonies over the life of my tank do this. And the sequence of events while it is happening really, in my mind, points to a bacteria, bug, something.

I think that it happens too fast for it to be just a dying coral.

 

[melev]

So two days later, I retested Nitrate and Phosphate to see how they would read once the skimmer pulled out all the nonsense from the water.

11/29/07
PO4 - 1.0
NO3 - 15ppm

12/02/07
PO4 - .25
NO3 - 10ppm

The rest of the tests were good.

Salinity - 1.026
Temp - 79.9 to 80.1 F
pH - 8.03 to 8.21
ORP - 320 to 326
Alkalinity - 10.2 dKH
Calcium - 430
Magnesium - 1440

Water quality is excellent, and the skimmer pulled out very little in the past 24 hours. Carbon was replaced two days ago as well.

 

[kau_cinta_ku]

your po4 got up to 1.0 just in the 72 hours of using the chemiclean?

seems like it went down really well and hopefully will be at 0 in a couple of days. sorry to hear about the corals, they looked beautiful.

 

[mattb71]

nice pic of that CBB

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11301531#post11301531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kau_cinta_ku
your po4 got up to 1.0 just in the 72 hours of using the chemiclean?

seems like it went down really well and hopefully will be at 0 in a couple of days. sorry to hear about the corals, they looked beautiful.

My guess would be a lack of skimming for three days, plus the die-off of cyano. Nutrients build up from feeding and fish waste. Glad it came down more.

I've not run any GFO in my tank for over 3 months now, so I'm going to have to to get the PO4 down again.

 

[Alaska_Phil]

Bummer about the RTN problems. I can't imagine how frustrating that is. I've lost a couple corals, but it was always within the first couple months. Not after a couple years.

What's GFO?

Phil

 

[Tbduval]

Melev....I was thinking, which is a scary thought! How many times has the RTN'ing occurred shortly after you used Chemi-Clean? Could this be the common denominator? Just a thought.

 

[argo]

Marc, did you by any chance examine the branches that you cut / disposed off? One of my corals lost its color and the last time it happened it was followed by an STN and eventually an overnight RTN. A week later I discovered AEFWS; that's a month after my third treatment for RBs. That was some bad Juju.
I followed your thread ever since the 14-day move. You've accomplished alot and shared your success and minor set backs with all of us - I personally learned alot. I wish Good Juju upon your tank, man. May this be the last of your setbacks. No more PO4 wars.

 

[melev]

RTNing happens whenever it feels like it. Eric Borneman did some research on this but I don't believe he's published his results yet. From what I've heard, the cause is within the coral, rather than some surface issue.

I was thinking today about where the corals are, and how the RTN spread. Let's assume the two corals to the right were perfectly healthy. The flow from the pumps on the left side of the tank may have carried the necrosy onto the two others, since their proximity was so close.

The frags I saved in the prop section died. The little bit I left on that rock is quietly receeding, and may be gone by morning. I'm thinking of moving that one healthy coral that I got from Gabriel that is just to the right of the purple milli.

AEFW aren't known for bothering millis, and both of these corals were very very hairy. I didn't see any sign of them. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[poppin_fresh]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11306950#post11306950 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaska_Phil
What's GFO?

Phil

granular ferric oxide- the material that absorbs phosphates (like phosban, etc.)

 

[Alaska_Phil]

Thanks Poppin' Guess I'm familiar with it without even knowing
So does it irritate leathers? I refilled my reactor this afternoon and a couple hours later my fingers and toadstool were all completely closed up.

Phil

 

[melev]

Normally not, if you rinsed it out well. The water over the media should be completely clear.

 

[Alaska_Phil]

That would be it then. I thought I'd rinsed it well, but got a little puff of dust when I first started it in the tank. See how they're doing in the morning I guess.

Phosphates are holding steady below 0.03 now (where 0.5 to 1.0 before) and my nitrates are undetectable now. So I guess Hair makes a good algae scrubber. And I've had to start dosing Ca since I started running GFO, guess my corals are getting happier and using more.

So, having only very limited (and accidental) experience with SPS corals myself, what is the theory behind what causes RTN?

Phil

 

[melev]

No-one really knows, but Borneman seems to have found the key. Speaking completely without any facts, I believe he's determined it takes place in the gastro-intestinal area of the coral, rather than being something it could catch. If this is true, then that would explain why fragging corals doesn't necessarily save anything because the problem is already within the coral (like a cancer) and breaking it up can't stop it since it is IN the coral's skeletal area. Again, this is just what I think I understood from a single conversation back in January while we stood outside waiting for someone to unlock the door to our conference hall.

What matters even more to me is not the 'why' but rather the cure. Sell me a bottle that stops the problem or heals the coral, and I'll buy it by the case.

 

[jnarowe]

Phil,

I have my GFO effluent going through 2 fine filter socks before entering the tank.

 

[Alaska_Phil]

Not a bad idea Jonathan, but fortunately everything looks good again this morning. Well, other than the fact there's still hair algae in the tank. :lol:

Phil