Mhucasey's SPS obsession

Matt,

I would get my calculations double checked with a chemist on here. disc 1 is a chemistry teacher as far as I remember.

PS. I can see you becoming a Tritonian. :fun2: There is simply too much reference to Triton in your post, which I find unsettling. You will be sending water samples to Triton for testing soon if you carry on with this rate. :blown: Just saying...
 
JB NY said:
This is what i calculated for daily dosing to start.

Zn raise 2.8 ug/L (0.0028 ppm) per week 0.4 ug/L (0.0004 ppm) per day.
Mn raise per week 1.1 ug/L (0.0011 ppm) per week. 0.166 ug/L (0.000166 ppm) per day
Click to expand...

Excuse me but I don't understand"¦can you calculate for me? I've got a 500 liters tank, so how much triton zinc and then manganese supplement have I to dose daily?
thanks
 
+1 on the separate thread I think that's a great idea for the homebrew supplements. I'm not at the point where I'll be doing it myself but who knows what 6 months will bring.
 
JB NY said:
This is what i calculated for daily dosing to start.

Zn raise 2.8 ug/L (0.0028 ppm) per week 0.4 ug/L (0.0004 ppm) per day.
Mn raise per week 1.1 ug/L (0.0011 ppm) per week. 0.166 ug/L (0.000166 ppm) per day
Click to expand...

That matches my calculations exactly. It appears Triton uses a standard depletion rate for each of these elements. For Manganese, its 8.3% per day, for Zinc its 10% per day.


For the DIY, I just basically multiplied the daily dose by 100 to make it a dose per 100L, and multiplied it again by 100 for 100Mls of solution where a dose is 1ml.
 
DiscusHeckel said:
Matt,

I would get my calculations double checked with a chemist on here. disc 1 is a chemistry teacher as far as I remember.

PS. I can see you becoming a Tritonian. :fun2: There is simply too much reference to Triton in your post, which I find unsettling. You will be sending water samples to Triton for testing soon if you carry on with this rate. :blown: Just saying...
Click to expand...

I will eventually post the DIY solutions in the Chemistry forum as a new thread, but I'm confident in the numbers. No way on becoming a Triton user, I am very happy with Aquaforest and I don't want to deal with maintaining algae. I also don't like the idea of having to send a sample away for almost 50 bucks to get the testing.

I do give much appreciation to Triton for developing the method and expanding the frontiers!
 
mhucasey said:
I also don't like the idea of having to send a sample away for almost 50 bucks to get the testing.

I do give much appreciation to Triton for developing the method and expanding the frontiers!
Click to expand...

I don't think that you should look at it as if you have to spend $50 to get these tests. The test are there only if you want it.

This is me summarizing my thoughts on a few talks with Eshan from Triton, but one thing to recognize is that there is no real data on what these elements that we are dosing into our tank do. Zinc, Manganese, Cobalt, Vanadium, these are trace elements that over time it looks like people have found useful in SPS tanks. But each tank is different. And while Zinc might stop burnt tips in a tank that is having that problem, I'm not sure if adding Zinc to a tank that doesn't have that problem is going to create one later on. Do certain corals use more of one element than other? Montopora looks like it might consume Zinc and Nickel at higher levels than Acropora, so a tank heavily stocked with Montipora might consume these elements differently. Those differences with keeping different corals might require more or less of certain elements.

In the past there was no way to know if you had a deficiency or a surplus of these trace elements, because there are no test kits. Now using the ICP testing you can test your water to see what is going on. I don't think you have to use the ICP testing but I think in certain situation having that available can be very helpful in understaning what is actually going on in our tanks.

What I would love to see happen out of all this is that we can determine that keeping levels of x element causes or prevents x from happening. This would take so much of the guess work out of these dosing products and nail it down to something that actaully makes sense and can be replicated.

Maybe it is time to start a new thread, these talks seem to be happening in a number of different threads now.
 
mhucasey said:
I will eventually post the DIY solutions in the Chemistry forum as a new thread, but I'm confident in the numbers. No way on becoming a Triton user, I am very happy with Aquaforest and I don't want to deal with maintaining algae. I also don't like the idea of having to send a sample away for almost 50 bucks to get the testing.

I do give much appreciation to Triton for developing the method and expanding the frontiers!
Click to expand...

You must have read the article written by Rich Ross and Dr Chris Maupin on Triton testing. Just in case here it is:

https://www.reefs.com/forum/mag.php?do=wp_post&articleId=159

There was a big debate on this forum ask well as R2R about the article. Reading experts' and chemistry professors' views on Triton testing was interesting indeed. FWIW, FM has started its own ICP testing in Germany.
 
DiscusHeckel said:
You must have read the article written by Rich Ross and Dr Chris Maupin on Triton testing. Just in case here it is:

https://www.reefs.com/forum/mag.php?do=wp_post&articleId=159

There was a big debate on this forum ask well as clay-boa about the article. Reading experts' and chemistry professors' views on Triton testing was interesting indeed. FWIW, FM has started its own ICP testing in Germany.
Click to expand...
Yes, I read that a while back. I don't think that any skepticism based on not knowing how they handle the sample and configure their instrument are valid.
There is a lot of griping about Triton not letting them in on all their secrets.

The three tests resulting in similar values tells me that their process is Precise if not totally Accurate. Since they define their setpoint and dosing using their test, its not as important to be accurate. Just IMO.
 
Update:
I got my Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate yesterday and made up a batch of solution for dropwise dosing. OI threw all caution to the wind and immediately did a double dose and then started regular dosing at 7 drops per day last night. Why? Well in the last week or so the color on the tips of the acros in the tank seem to have faded. Maybe too much Manganese, or the interruption of the dosing of the 10 drops per day MicroE(I suspended the dosing from Monday through Saturday last week).

Well a couple of hours after the double dose of Zinc, the corals were sowing off some amazing PE, so they didn't seem to mind it all. They were also looking great this morning. I am dosing Micro E at half dose(4 drops/day) while dosing the Manganese and Zinc at full dose. The hope is that the overall mix will be similar to 10 drops Micro E, minus some of the iron.

I will have pics tomorrow hopefully. My "camera" was an old iPhone 5 that fit into my top-down viewer. My iPhone 6 doesn't fit, so I have anew larger top-down viewer coming tomorrow.
 
Now we just need you to mass produce and bottle this Manganese and Zinc combo Matt. So it sounds like Zinc was the culprit for the lack of polyp extension?
 
reefmutt said:
Matt, please explain (again, I guess) why the avoidance of iron?
Just to help in problem algae and zoox suppression?
Click to expand...

I'm minimizing Iron because:

1: The effect of the Manganese and Zinc on Zooxanthellae populations is better when Iron is low.
2: Iron can fuel the bacteria that attach coral tissue at the base as well as cyanobacteria
3: Im using Phosphate Minus and Zeolites, which are both potential sources of Iron and don't want to add to that.
 
drawman said:
Now we just need you to mass produce and bottle this Manganese and Zinc combo Matt. So it sounds like Zinc was the culprit for the lack of polyp extension?
Click to expand...

PE has been good throughout, it just was a little more extreme after adding the Zinc. It could be coincidence as well. The tips losing color is the issue I'll be watching closely - not sure what the reason for that is. I see a definite effect of the Manganese dosing. Zooxanthellae density is visibly lower and some corals that were going from yellow to green have gone back to yellow.
 
mhucasey said:
I'm minimizing Iron because:

1: The effect of the Manganese and Zinc on Zooxanthellae populations is better when Iron is low.
2: Iron can fuel the bacteria that attach coral tissue at the base as well as cyanobacteria
3: Im using Phosphate Minus and Zeolites, which are both potential sources of Iron and don't want to add to that.
Click to expand...

Thanks..
So, how would you think this method could be employed (if it can be employed) in systems that rely on macro algea fuges for nutrient control?
I ask because I rely on one and so does Joe (he has a pax bellum)..
I'll have to check what Joe is adding at the moment.. He mentioned an uptick in cheato growth after beginning trace element additions, but I'm not sure exactly which ones..
 
JB NY said:
Matt, why did you choose Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate over Zinc Chloride?
Click to expand...

I believe it was because zinc chloride anhydrous didn't appear to be soluble in water. Apparently full dissolution doesn't happen even with the hydrated forms. Finding Zinc sulfate seemed to be an easy solution.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
Help: SPS peeling strangely.
Replies
5
Views
178
griss
griss
griss
New Acquisition
Replies
14
Views
202
griss
griss
Itchy Trigger
Heaters for Sump and for Storage Tanks
Replies
2
Views
120
aquaman67
aquaman67
W
Potential 65G
Replies
12
Views
193
wilson_the_volleybal
W
S
New tank inhabitants introduction order?
Replies
15
Views
245
Sermanley
S
Back
Top