Mhucasey's SPS obsession
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mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I know what you mean, it was really hard to not add corals and stay invested in the tank.
bif24701
New member
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I would think so, but only if there is an Ammonia component to the granules. I haven't ever used Potassium Nitrate myself.
Thanks very much! It's hard to photograph but very cool to look at in person.
Thanks Greg. I am trying to be discerning in my coral selections this stocking trip. I also have a bout 5 or 6 Acropora frags that are just a small remnant of high end corals that I am hoping to nurse back to health. I would like to have a tank with as many stunners as possible!
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Update:
First, a little rant about something that really bothers me in modern reefkeeping. Our systems are complex factories of various chemicals and no one has a perfect handle on what is exactly going on in their little ecosystems. There are a million ways to run a tank and have some level of success. Many folks have been doing this long enough to get a sense of what their system is lacking and either consciously or unconsciously keep their system in the sweet spot for their corals.
In the last few years, there has been a really nice effort to really standardize this, led by Triton, using the approach of high resolution testing. If you use their system, they can customize the various macro and micro elements needed to keep the system stable and essentially eliminate changing water. Triton's approach has been proven many times in many beautiful tanks.
Then there are the naysayers, which frustrate me to no end. I'm talking about the people who tear apart every aspect of every system that isn't from the year 2000. The ones who say every additive is useless in one post and dangerous in the next. The ones who advocate trace element dosing by fish food only. The ones who cannot think past 10 or 20% water changes each week. Finally, the people who look at testing of the kind used by Triton and always have another reason why it is worthless in their opinion.
It's always this attack mode on anything new, and frankly the vast majority of those attacking have tanks that are not great showcases for their "Basic Only" approach. There are exceptions, such as Big Ed, who boasts a basic approach, gorgeous corals AND who teaches in a respectful and polite manner.
Why all this? Well the tank has been stuck a bit, partially because I was concerned about introducing anything other than the basics after the pump poisoned the tank last year, and I've been very cautious. Pre-rebuild corals were getting by but not thriving, with poor PE and slow healing. New corals had PE but it wasn't great. Coral color all around was pretty dismal, a lot of green and some brown. I was only dosing Lugol's in small quantities and replenishing lost salt but not changing water(I don't like changing water).
I got rid of about a gallon of matrix from the bypass sump and threw some Chaeto in there with a light. The Chaeto struggled even though the tank tested at 0.22ppm PO4 and ~50ppm NO3. I tried dosing some homemade Iron Citrate solution in small quantities - the Chaeto darkened up but otherwise didn't do much. I went out of town on business last week til Thursday and didn't dose anything while gone (other than the CaRx), and the situation was largely the same, except there was only about half the chaeto left.
While out of town I looked at Joe's thread and others regarding Zinc and Manganese dosing. That led me to the Australian coral farmer's thread and the thread about Zinc in particular. I finally decided to get off the fence and started back to dosing Zinc, Manganese, Iron, and Iodine on a regular schedule. Within 2 days I saw a verifiable difference in the coral health and PE. I'm also seeing color shifts that are surprising, and not just my imagination. Could this same thing have happened with just adding some particular mix of fish foods and/or changing water? Sure they could. I would like to think that we can aspire to a more controlled approach that doesn't require the waste that water changes produce.
The story is just getting started and I hope that the ending will be one of increased knowledge!
So here are some pics, in all these, the corals have improved significantly since a week ago. Where you see color coming back in is all new:
First, a little rant about something that really bothers me in modern reefkeeping. Our systems are complex factories of various chemicals and no one has a perfect handle on what is exactly going on in their little ecosystems. There are a million ways to run a tank and have some level of success. Many folks have been doing this long enough to get a sense of what their system is lacking and either consciously or unconsciously keep their system in the sweet spot for their corals.
In the last few years, there has been a really nice effort to really standardize this, led by Triton, using the approach of high resolution testing. If you use their system, they can customize the various macro and micro elements needed to keep the system stable and essentially eliminate changing water. Triton's approach has been proven many times in many beautiful tanks.
Then there are the naysayers, which frustrate me to no end. I'm talking about the people who tear apart every aspect of every system that isn't from the year 2000. The ones who say every additive is useless in one post and dangerous in the next. The ones who advocate trace element dosing by fish food only. The ones who cannot think past 10 or 20% water changes each week. Finally, the people who look at testing of the kind used by Triton and always have another reason why it is worthless in their opinion.
It's always this attack mode on anything new, and frankly the vast majority of those attacking have tanks that are not great showcases for their "Basic Only" approach. There are exceptions, such as Big Ed, who boasts a basic approach, gorgeous corals AND who teaches in a respectful and polite manner.
Why all this? Well the tank has been stuck a bit, partially because I was concerned about introducing anything other than the basics after the pump poisoned the tank last year, and I've been very cautious. Pre-rebuild corals were getting by but not thriving, with poor PE and slow healing. New corals had PE but it wasn't great. Coral color all around was pretty dismal, a lot of green and some brown. I was only dosing Lugol's in small quantities and replenishing lost salt but not changing water(I don't like changing water).
I got rid of about a gallon of matrix from the bypass sump and threw some Chaeto in there with a light. The Chaeto struggled even though the tank tested at 0.22ppm PO4 and ~50ppm NO3. I tried dosing some homemade Iron Citrate solution in small quantities - the Chaeto darkened up but otherwise didn't do much. I went out of town on business last week til Thursday and didn't dose anything while gone (other than the CaRx), and the situation was largely the same, except there was only about half the chaeto left.
While out of town I looked at Joe's thread and others regarding Zinc and Manganese dosing. That led me to the Australian coral farmer's thread and the thread about Zinc in particular. I finally decided to get off the fence and started back to dosing Zinc, Manganese, Iron, and Iodine on a regular schedule. Within 2 days I saw a verifiable difference in the coral health and PE. I'm also seeing color shifts that are surprising, and not just my imagination. Could this same thing have happened with just adding some particular mix of fish foods and/or changing water? Sure they could. I would like to think that we can aspire to a more controlled approach that doesn't require the waste that water changes produce.
The story is just getting started and I hope that the ending will be one of increased knowledge!
So here are some pics, in all these, the corals have improved significantly since a week ago. Where you see color coming back in is all new:
DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Our differences are our strengths Matt. If only we could respect each others' views.
Like button pressed.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I need a like button.
Very very interested to see how your element additions go!
Thanks guys, I feel like something can be learned from every reef story! There have been many times over the history of reefing where the "conventional wisdom" belittled a new innovation only to be proven wrong in the long run- see Radium MH bulbs, no wet-dry, T5 bulbs, and the Berlin Method for example.
With many dosing regimes the manufacturer gives you a bottle with unknown quantities of something in it and tells you to dose x drops or MLs per day. The difference for this dosing is that I have solutions where I know the precise quantity of trace elements(because I prepared them), I know the target concentration in seawater, and so I dose a percentage of that amount each day. The goal is determining the ideal percentage - which appears to be 10-20% of the target. The testing and reccomendations appear to support that these elements are lost from the system at approximately 10%- 20% per day, therefore systems that dose based on this suffer no buildup after months or years of dosing.
Well, that's my plan for now. Steady dosing of Mn, Zn, and Iodine, adjusted doses of Fe and Strontium. I'm trying to keep all other conditions stable in the meantime to see if I can add to the general data surrounding maintaining coral-friendly conditions.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I had to share this - a picture from the flubber tank. This is the tank I pretty much ignore. I use old T5 bulbs over it, I leave the cyano that forms on the sand where it is, and I have accepted that the Imperator Angelfish(Furiosa) will pick at the corals in here so they are not all fully expanded all the time. However, the reason I still have this tank is because of the purple(ish) long tentacle anemone I have in there - I've had it for 4+ years.
It has become a monster.:eek1:
Look at this thing - for comparison the imperator is between 4 and 5 inches long:
It has become a monster.:eek1:
Look at this thing - for comparison the imperator is between 4 and 5 inches long:
cFloor
New member
Excellent rant
Your corals are looking good! That red one by the monti is amazing, stunning color! And I'm glad you've kept the flubber tank going. It's cool to have something different. I constantly play with the idea of setting up another system for corals I can't keep in my main tank. Maybe one day. Glad to see everything is going well.
Your corals are looking good! That red one by the monti is amazing, stunning color! And I'm glad you've kept the flubber tank going. It's cool to have something different. I constantly play with the idea of setting up another system for corals I can't keep in my main tank. Maybe one day. Glad to see everything is going well.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Thanks Connor, it is interesting to just let it grow kind of wild. It is also great for isolating corals that don't work in the SPS tank or for fish that don't play well like the Imperator.
Corals rare really improving now, yes. I have 12 36" T5 bulbs over the SPS reef, and I run 8 bulbs(6 Blue Plus/2 ABS) for 9 hours a day, and the remaining 4 bulbs(4 Coral Plus) for 4 hours in the middle. Bulbs are ~9" off the water. Here is a par map with the bulbs 11" off the water:
I did that mapping a while back, different bulbs were used but I played around there wasn't much of a difference with different bulb combos. With the fixture a little lower the PAR is likely a bit higher.
Thanks Mike
Furiosa has grown on me as well, such a striking fish!
bif24701
New member
Thanks Connor, it is interesting to just let it grow kind of wild. It is also great for isolating corals that don't work in the SPS tank or for fish that don't play well like the Imperator.
Corals rare really improving now, yes. I have 12 36" T5 bulbs over the SPS reef, and I run 8 bulbs(6 Blue Plus/2 ABS) for 9 hours a day, and the remaining 4 bulbs(4 Coral Plus) for 4 hours in the middle. Bulbs are ~9" off the water. Here is a par map with the bulbs 11" off the water:
I did that mapping a while back, different bulbs were used but I played around there wasn't much of a difference with different bulb combos. With the fixture a little lower the PAR is likely a bit higher.
Thanks Mike
Wow, you have a really great spread and even PAR all through out. T5s do a great job of that.
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bif24701
New member
Mhucasey's SPS obsession
I am trying to adjust my lighting. I recently added two 60" T5s to my 180 with 2 Kessil AP700s. The Kessils at 50% and the T5s on I'm getting 300+ on the sand. Kessils only 70% I'm getting just <200 PAR. My LPS don't seem to like the extra intensity and possibly the SPS too. So I've decided to keep my standards 70% peak schedule and turn on the T5s for just 4 hours in the middle. Will have to see how things respond.
Thanks Connor, it is interesting to just let it grow kind of wild. It is also great for isolating corals that don't work in the SPS tank or for fish that don't play well like the Imperator.
Corals rare really improving now, yes. I have 12 36" T5 bulbs over the SPS reef, and I run 8 bulbs(6 Blue Plus/2 ABS) for 9 hours a day, and the remaining 4 bulbs(4 Coral Plus) for 4 hours in the middle. Bulbs are ~9" off the water. Here is a par map with the bulbs 11" off the water:
I did that mapping a while back, different bulbs were used but I played around there wasn't much of a difference with different bulb combos. With the fixture a little lower the PAR is likely a bit higher.
Thanks Mike
I am trying to adjust my lighting. I recently added two 60" T5s to my 180 with 2 Kessil AP700s. The Kessils at 50% and the T5s on I'm getting 300+ on the sand. Kessils only 70% I'm getting just <200 PAR. My LPS don't seem to like the extra intensity and possibly the SPS too. So I've decided to keep my standards 70% peak schedule and turn on the T5s for just 4 hours in the middle. Will have to see how things respond.
bif24701
New member
Something keeps happening to my posts.....
Anyway, I recently added T5s to my 2 Kessil AP700s over my 180. My schedule prior to that @70% I'm getting just <200 at the sand bed. With the T5s and Kessil @50% I'm getting about 300 PAR. My LPS and maybe SPS seem to not like the addition as much. So I've decided I'll do the T5s for just 4 hours in the middle and see how things respond to that.
Your numbers give me an idea of what others are successful with.
What are you NO3/PO4 and ALK numbers like?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Anyway, I recently added T5s to my 2 Kessil AP700s over my 180. My schedule prior to that @70% I'm getting just <200 at the sand bed. With the T5s and Kessil @50% I'm getting about 300 PAR. My LPS and maybe SPS seem to not like the addition as much. So I've decided I'll do the T5s for just 4 hours in the middle and see how things respond to that.
Your numbers give me an idea of what others are successful with.
What are you NO3/PO4 and ALK numbers like?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
The more I think I know something about ideal PAR, the less I find that I know...Ive seen amazing corals grown under 200 PAR to 2000 PAR full sunlight.
My numbers are comical NO3:~50ppm, PO4: 0.25ppm, Alk 6.5(raising this as growth is taking off. I want to be at 7.5)
No nuisance algae, Cyano is present but only in the Flubber tank. I clean the glass every 2-3 days. Go figure...
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