mini-rant on Streams

[pjr]

Let me start by stating that I really dig the Tunze pumps... my 6080 rocks and I have another one on order. And Roger is the bomb... any company would be lucky to have someone like him represent their products.

My rant has to do with the brackets that come with tthe Streams. This things are cheezy! They look like a plastic version of an erector set, and the setup instructions are like following along with a Rube Goldberg device. Functionally, they are mediocre at best.

Yes, I know that Tunze will say that tanks in Europe have different brackets. My answer to that is that if Tunze wants to sell products in north america, they should have a version to meet the specs and needs of their customer base.

I know that Tunze would say that I can upgrade to the mangentic pump holder. My answer to that is I don't want to pay another $50 for a bracket on a pump that, at its price point, should be equipped with a competent bracket right out of the box.

How can the Seio come with a GREAT mounting system using good old suction cups at a price point under $50, and Tunze provides sticks and bolts with a $200 to $300 Stream?

OK, I feel better now.... going to go watch my flow.

 

[rvitko]

I would disagree on this. We do include all the articles now that are necessary to mount on a US tanks. You would not want suction cups, trust me, have you ever had a suction cup last longer than 6 months? Do you really want a $300 pump chewing gravel and worse blowing it all of your corals? Suction cups are completely out of the question. I also find the seio mount is so big that it takes away any size decrease over our pumps. The bracket is made of really solid materials and while I accept it is not easy to learn to use, I do have photos of the finished product in my gallery. It does it's job, it provides a solid mount and the materials are really top shelf with graphite reinforced nylon or anodized stainless screws and all other parts being glass reinforced plastic with up to 90% glass fiber content. I don't mean to be combative but a lot of engineering went into that holder and it is an elegant solution when you consider the tremendous number of tank styles worldwide that we have to design our product to work with. I don't reallly think the instructions could be better as it is a 3 dimensional concept that doesn't translate well to paper and that is a limitation of the media of print. I used to have my gripes with it too but once I learned to use them I quickly adapted them to hold just about everything in my tanks because they are very solid and very permanent.

 

[pjr]

I respect your opinion Roger, but .....

I have an AGA tank with a canopy and mounting the Stream was a chore... eventually, I had to hang it on an overflow. In my prior tank, an Innovative Plastics acrylic, the Stream was impossible to mount.

My modified CAP prop pump is attached to an acrylic bracket with 4 cups on the back and it's been rigid for over 2 years without incident.

I don't disagree about the quality of the parts, but it's just a pile of parts that really don't suit US tanks well. It may serve 80% of the world but it's a pain for the 20% who live here, and if you have a canopy you're further impacted.

 

[Timbo]

I thought Roger said the US market was now roughly a third of Tunze's total market?

I agree with Roger that the brackets are a good design when you consider the many different tank configurations that it must fit. But for the more expensive Stream pumps ($300-400+) I whole heartedly feel that it should come with a magnetic bracket. Its almost a slap in the face to ask a customer to spend another $30-50 bucks for magnets on a $300 pump. Just my opinion, and I aknowledge Tunze is seemingly doing very well despite this, so I don't expect much to change.

ymmv

 

[golusin]

I really can't help myself, I have to write a response. I read this one day under the heading An "Insider's" Guide to Reef Aquaria:Tunze Stream Pumps :

"I hesitate to mention these, since they are relatively new, and I have only used a few of them. I am deeply disturbed by their cost, and absolutely stunned at the cheapness of the materials and mounting devices. Still, to use the vernacular, "these pumps rock."

Written by Eric Borneman in an article on this forum somewhere.

I have a Ts24 kit, a wavebox and the top up system. I threw the mounting stuff into the box of kit and created my own using cable ties and aluminium brackets. These brackets must be an German Engineers delight, if anyone out there can figure out how to use them, put them together then stop them moving all over the tank or sump or wherever they go then good luck. I have the rocks for somewhere to put the pumps (but am currently using the magnets) I am using the brackets with some screws and cable ties to secure the osmolator and I have invented my own way to firmly fix the wavebox with its suction cup, cable ties and aluminium channel to firmly fix it.

There is no defence for these brackets, they are not great. I think that a new fixing for the bracket head would help. The magnets are a huge improvement and for the price of this gear, they probably should be included. I can fit just about every method of fitting that is offered for the brackets - hard againts the glass, off a bracing etc. etc. As I said, I invented my own way. They are also not pretty.

So the gear is great, how about reviewing the design of the fixings? Just some more minor rants from a happy customer

 

[pjr]

Originally posted by Timbo, golusin, and Eric Borneman
I thought Roger said the US market was now roughly a third of Tunze's total market?

I agree with Roger that the brackets are a good design when you consider the many different tank configurations that it must fit. But for the more expensive Stream pumps ($300-400+) I whole heartedly feel that it should come with a magnetic bracket. Its almost a slap in the face to ask a customer to spend another $30-50 bucks for magnets on a $300 pump....

"I hesitate to mention these, since they are relatively new, and I have only used a few of them. I am deeply disturbed by their cost, and absolutely stunned at the cheapness of the materials and mounting devices. Still, to use the vernacular, "these pumps rock."

... I threw the mounting stuff into the box of kit and created my own using cable ties and aluminium brackets. These brackets must be an German Engineers delight, if anyone out there can figure out how to use them, put them together then stop them moving all over the tank or sump or wherever they go then good luck....

....There is no defence for these brackets, they are not great. I think that a new fixing for the bracket head would help. The magnets are a huge improvement and for the price of this gear, they probably should be included. ....

Well said folks .... and if indeeed that the US is 1/3 of the market then they should do a better job with the brackets for this market.

 

[rvitko]

OK, lets say we include the magnet holders. Which one? What if the customer has glass thicker than 3/4"? This is something we are considering for say a year or two down the road but this isn't a trouble free solution either and you also have to keep in mind the price will have to go up at least $20 and it is already set to go up $30 in the US just because of the exchange rate.

 

[Timbo]

why don't you just make all the magnets the stronger style and include a spacer to facilitate thinner tanks?

 

[pjr]

...or make a US export braket kit and a European kit? The factory can include one or the other depending on market?

 

[rvitko]

Two bracket kits would be impossible. They all have to be the same, the confusion and delays in production would make a bad situation worse. We already have occasional mix ups of plugs and transformers.

 

[ebelz]

well I just got my 6100's today and set them up with out issue. I used the so called cheesey straps and they seem to work fine for me and were quite straight forward. I dont know if its because of my tank but they worked great for me and are solid. On another note i have had over 10 different powerheads in this tank and I cant see anything that compares to the flow given off by these Turbelles. I am so far quite pleased I just wish I had gotten the multicontroller as well. I look forward to having that piece. Roger any idea when I can expect to see the controller? Good job Tunze!

Erik

 

[pjr]

Two bracket kits would be impossible. They all have to be the same, the confusion and delays in production would make a bad situation worse. We already have occasional mix ups of plugs and transformers.

So the term Flexible Manufacturing hasn't made it to Tunze it seems. Not to be preachy, but the best companies, the ones that survive, especially when competition comes in, are the ones that listen to the feedback from their customers and make improvements to the products and services they offer. Just a thought worth considering...

 

[rvitko]

I would expect anyone who ordered before the 2nd week in March should get one soon. I don't know for sure though. i hope to get more soon but we made a pretty big dent in backorders last week.

 

[rvitko]

I am listening. That isn't the issue. I have already inquired about this and it is being worked on as we speak. However it will be one holder for all not one for the US and one for Europe. That is why I asked what magnet holder would be included? How will you react when a 6100 costs $370? It is already going up to $345 in August because the exchange rate has changed 13 cents on the dollar since the last price increase 2 years ago. Axel is thinking about the proposition of including the magnet holder right now. He made a few good points but he is leaning this way but it might not happen for another year.

A: It is too late the 2005 catalogue is virtually finished and it doesn't show the magnet holder coming with the pump. People will order one even though the pump comes with one and this would be a returns nightmare for our dealers. The manual will also have to be redone. Keep in mind we do just about everything ourselves and it will stay that way too.

B: It would result in production delays beyond what we have already. The current holder is stamped by our machines and threaded in house and subd out to a group of handicapped people who package the components for us. The magnets have to be done in house further tieing up our resources.

C: What about the people who pay the extra money and don't need it or can't use it?

 

[robthorn]

are the prices staying the same until august for sure? I am on the higher end of the dirt poor side and have to save for everything. I have the 7095 controller with no pumps yet . I have been sitting on the controller for months now trying to get money for pumps and have not been able to yet. if the price goes up even higher I may have to just forget the hole deal. I guess the next question is will there be anymore available in the u.s. before august? I am looking for 6000's by the way.

 

[Rueg]

I had a heck of a time mounting my Tunze streams. Had to get the longer screws which Roger was kind enough to send. But it was still a major pain. Hanging them from the top with a screw going over the trim isn't the prettiest thats for sure. The screw marks up the plastic trim also.

 

[Brad A.]

Just wanted to say that I recently set up a seio pump and it was 10 times the nightmare of trying to attach a stream to my all glass 65. Additionally, the seio has stopped 5 times in the last month. It has to be tapped or hit on the side to get it going. IMO, its a low quality product. (Typical of Rio garbage)

Also, suction cups are totally lame.

Done with my rant.

 

[dougc]

I was able to simply screw the brackets into the ends of my canopy, so I had lots of parts left over. I have been using the leftovers to hang drip lines, probes, and all sorts of other stuff in my sump. The only problem I have is that I am running out of parts.

The brackets aren't perfect, but they are certainly better than suction cups. A runaway powerhead is an ugly thing.

 

[rvitko]

Rob, this is a very advanced notice. I won't make an official notice until the new MSRP list and catalogue are in my hands which is now looking like the first week of June. We will then honor the current pricing on anything ordered before August 1. This is not anything we are doing on our end but simply has to do with the exchange between the Euro and the Dollar. If their were forecasts this would improve we might not take this step but none of the major banks see any improvement for at least a couple years and it is to the point if it gets even a few cents worse Tunze will lose money on many of the items they sell. Unfortunately we had a meeting regarding this yesterday and while I had to accept this was the reality it was generally agreed that sales in the US will drop but they are gooing to do everything possible to be fair and give enough advanced warning.

 

[robthorn]

yes I do appreciate the advanced warning. now the problem is the people grabbing them up and price gouging on ebay and other stores. trying to sell the 7095 for $399 to start. never thought it would be a bad thing to like quality. KEEP UP THE GOOD QUALITY WORK. I will find a way. thanks for being available to answer questions. service is a very important factor. is there a general service life to be expected on the streams?