Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[mr.wilson]

That's a lot of red. Most people would find 5% red (660nm) to be too much.

 

[megadeth72]

found another one that looks interesting that has 30 6500K-7500K & 20 450nm~455nm

I'm trying to find one for my kids tank with something like 20 12k, 10 6500k, 10 blue, 10 royal blue

 

[megadeth72]

Anyone know if the "dreamchip" can have channels joined to cut down on drivers?

I searched but sometimes it's hard to determine what the led's requirements are.

I was thinking the 2 whites and UV + 2 blue's on another, I would like to use LDD drivers, different ratings ie 600/700/1000 to limit the channel if possible, and I dont want to push the chips too hard

I have a controller but I dont have free time to set it up right now

 

[mr.wilson]

You can combine channels, as they are all 36v chips. You could run all of the channels together if you wish. Just make sure the amperage doesn't exceed the max wattage of the chips and cooling capacity.

 

[sfsuphysics]

So what's the consensus on power lots of multichips? Having read some time back that the "standard" meanwell drivers can cause serious electrical problems if you stack too many of them, what's other options to power them, are those cheap(ish) drivers that often go with the chip actually better?

 

[mr.wilson]

So what's the consensus on power lots of multichips? Having read some time back that the "standard" meanwell drivers can cause serious electrical problems if you stack too many of them, what's other options to power them, are those cheap(ish) drivers that often go with the chip actually better?

A premium driver will last 50,000 hrs and operate reliably. A generic driver may last just as long, but from my experience they have a 10-20% failure rate. If you are prepared to have one or more drives fail and wait for replacements in the dark, then they are a great way to save money. I would buy a spare driver to have on hand if you go with a generic brand.

Any driver could fail if you have too many of them starting at the same time. As long as they are staggered, there is no issue.

I also strongly recommend sealed drivers that are rated for outdoor use. The corrosive environment of a marine tank is no place for unprotected electronics. I would also run the drivers remotely, away from the display and sump if possible.

 

[megadeth72]

where did you get that 10-20 % failure rate? I dont buy that for a second, having opened these up they are pretty simple

 

[BeanAnimal]

where did you get that 10-20 % failure rate? I dont buy that for a second, having opened these up they are pretty simple

That is the problem.... lack of proper filtering and poor quality component choices (cheap electroylytics and garbage ceramics)... Not all electronic components are created equal. Morover, most "cheap china" knock-off products have lessened component count to save cost.

In a typical scenario, they reverse engineer an existing circuit, and rebuild it, removing filter components, feeback components and sub-circuits to the point where the device still runs, but with fewer components.

For example a true Apple iphone charger is a rather complex and well engineered circuit with a well designed feedback controller, full wave bridge, filtering and output protection. The china knock-offs ($5 each) are a simple single diode rectification with an undersized electrolytic filter cap and not much more. One will never harm you iPhone, the other can easily burn it (or itself) up.

FWIW: I would imagine that Wilson has derived the failure rate he quoted by first hand experience...

 

[megadeth72]

I still dont see a 10 % failure rate, maybe .5 % unless you have some real first hand examples I'm calling the BS anti china rhetoric

 

[mr.wilson]

I still dont see a 10 % failure rate, maybe .5 % unless you have some real first hand examples I'm calling the BS anti china rhetoric

I cover warrantees for several manufacturers who use generic Chinese drivers, so I have more experience than I would care to mention. I have had to replace several Mean Well drivers as well, so I have switched to Inventronics.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Chinese products. If I was opposed to Chinese made electronics I would be writing this down and mailing it to you instead There is an absolute difference between brands, just as there is in the automotive industry and in every industry.

I have the choice between generic and premium with a few of the brands that I sell in my shop. One manufacturer offers a 3 year warranty on his generic drivers and assures me they have worked well over the past three years he has used the. For me, it wasn't worth the extra cost for premium brands. I have replaced two drivers out of the 40 that I have sold. I have replacements in stock and they are free. I carry another brand that I pay the extra money for Mean Well, but it doesn't sell as well due to the added cost.

It really depends on what your budget is and convenience you demand. Many of the DIY projects on this thread are not high end reef tanks, and the owners don't mind waiting a week for replacement parts; otherwise, they would be buying off-the-shelf light fixtures.

 

[megadeth72]

that's a backhanded insult to a lot of DIYers

if my old light went out, it would be a weeks wait for parts too

 

[BeanAnimal]

You can have any opinion you wish, that does not mean that your opinion is informed. Befor eyou start calling "bs" on things, it would be prudent to educate yourself on the subject matter.

Mr. Wilson offered a comment based on both A) his likely personal experience and B) his understanding of the products and markets that he conducts business in. and C) basic facts ragarding the design and contruction of electronics components.

There is no rhetoric here, just the simple fact that you get what you pay for. China has built a large portion of their economy knocking-off electronics components and doing so by significantly reducing the cost of the products by removing just about every component they can while still allowing the product to function. They not only rip circuits down to their bare minimum, but they also knock-off components like logic chips, capacitors, resistors, diodes, etc. In many (most) cases these components are utter garbage and have a MTBF that is a fraction of the "real" components from Panasonic, Vishay, Tyco, Etc.

Go read 10-20 of the thousands of lawsuits filed yearly against these manufacturers. Read about the fake SquareD breakers, the fake Tyco and Siemens breakers. Read about the Nichicon electrolytics that have caused millions (yes millions) of devices to fail becuase they produced knock-off capacitors with a stolen formula, that the altered to reduce cost. MOST (not some, but MOST) of the china electronics trade is comprised of product designs STOLEN from vendors and CHEAPENED to the bare bones to dump on the us/world market.

You can visit sites like the eevblog and watch a few video teardowns and analysis of china knock-off electronics. If that is not enough for you, let me know and I will provide a pile of links to actual side-by-side tear downs or first hand comments from product engineers who have had their designs either A) stolen and produced in an inferior form or B) had their designs ALTERED (components removed to cheapen production cost) during manufacture in China WIHTOUT permission from the OEM, resulting in SIGNIFICANT rates of failure.

To argue any differently is to simply illustrate a lack of knowledge regarding, electronics design, component quality and the basic facts regarding China trade and business practices, if not general economics. Do you actually think a $50 PSU and a $5 PSU are the same thing, but the guy making and selling the $50 PSU is just ripping you off to the tune of $45?

 

[mr.wilson]

that's a backhanded insult to a lot of DIYers

if my old light went out, it would be a weeks wait for parts too

There are two kinds of DIYers. One seeks out the best components to make a finished product that is superior to anything on the market. The other assembles the cheapest materials in the hopes that it works.

I have dealt first hand with drivers that only last one year. For that reason, I switched to Mean Well for that product line.

I have purchased around 4 generic chargers for the IPhone. Only one works and you have to plug it in and out a few times for it to happen. I had better success with my Belkin iPhone charger, but after a year of use, it was done. It was a hard lesson, but I pay the extra money for Apple chargers whenever I lose the old one.

 

[megadeth72]

your 5 paragraphs about equipment that is not a led driver does not change my opinion at all, you should start a new thread if you want to gripe about that stuff, it does not really apply or belong here IMO, iphone chargers? really? LOL

these things are simple and I call bullshit on the 10-20 % failure rate that was implied

mr wilson may have lots of info but he's also a retailer

 

[BeanAnimal]

your 5 paragraphs about equipment that is not a led driver does not change my opinion at all

The key word being "opinion". Again, you are welcome to any opinion you choose, but when you offer that opinion in public and ask for "evidence" then you should expect to get what you ask for and that is what has been kindly provided.

you should start a new thread if you want to gripe about that stuff, it does not really apply or belong here IMO, iphone chargers? really?

I am not griping about anything, I am attempting to inform you (by relevant example) regarding the nature of electronics design and manufacture as it relates the the inexpensive "china" components and devices. If you are wish to ignore the context in order to avoid those facts, that too is your prerogative.

these things are simple and I call bullshit on the 10-20 % failure rate that was implied

"Simple" does not equate to reliable in terms of electronics circuit design. Simple may equate to inexpensive. In the end, you are calling BS after being offered facts, and oddly have nothing to support your opinion, other than your... opinion.

In the end, nobody here is going to be upset or offended by what driver you use and nobody here is trying to sell you anything. You are free to choose your products based on the criteria you set forth. At the same time, others following along may benefit by understanding the differences in design or product choices, including the expected performance of certain brands or types of electronics components.

 

[megadeth72]

nobody offered facts, 20 % failure on drivers is [profanity] plain and simple

 

[BeanAnimal]

You have been offered facts regarding the nature of these devices and their design by somebody who is capable of understanding the actual circuit topolgy and more importantly FIRST HAND testimony by somebody who buys and sells the actaul product in question.

You are calling the information presented by two informed sources "BS", and yet have no evidence to the contrary and in fact argue from (in context) a clearly uninformed position based on nothing more than your opinion.

Don't you see the irony in your position? You called "BS" and demanded evidence. It has been provided. The burden is on you to refute those facts and prove "BS".

 

[megadeth72]

1 in 5 failing, if that were the case this forum would have multiple threads on it

I'm sorry I'm calling [profanity], I do not need to provide anything I'm not the one making wild *** claims

 

[mr.wilson]

your 5 paragraphs about equipment that is not a led driver does not change my opinion at all, you should start a new thread if you want to gripe about that stuff, it does not really apply or belong here IMO, iphone chargers? really? LOL

these things are simple and I call bullshit on the 10-20 % failure rate that was implied

mr wilson may have lots of info but he's also a retailer

As a retailer, wholesaler, manufacturer's rep and manufacturer, I can only offer my experience as a conduit to end users. It's really up to you if you want to learn from my experience.

Comments like "I opened it up and it looked pretty simple" is a poor evaluation of quality. As Bean stated, over simplifying circuitry isn't always a good thing. If you open up a premium driver you will find it is anything but simple.

As I mentioned before, there are two types of DIYers. Clearly you are focusing on the cheapest option with a blind eye to quality and reliability.

 

[megadeth72]

As I mentioned before, there are two types of DIYers. Clearly you are focusing on the cheapest option with a blind eye to quality and reliability.

clearly now you are trolling

if your going to fall on your sword with the 20 % failure rate, go ahead I dont really care much, anyone can read the thread and decide for themselves