Minimum tank size requirements?

[Lukey]

Just putting this out there as i'm considering changing my setup and being able to put my big DT to it's potential and use it as a mixed reef scenario (school of anthias, angel, tang) and having my seahorses in a seperate tank next to this.

That plan is to house my 3 Kudas in a 2ftx1ftx18" tank in a seperate tank next to the main one, however it would still be plumbed in (overflow design into the tank, and then a simple gravity output from the tank into the sump). This way water parameters wouldn't be a problem, and I could keep the fish away from the seahorses which is the main concern for me, and be able to keep stinging corals such as anemones in the main tank.

My only real concern is i'd like a larger tank for the seahorses. Unfortunately if I get a larger tank it then takes a big hit on the funds I can put into stocking the DT as it means i'd have to have the seahorse custom built due to space constraints. I would like to go 2ft tall, however I can only go 1ft wide, and thus it would cost significantly more to have made, as opposed to the 2x1x18" I already have here at my disposal.

But yeah, don't want to proceed if it'd be too small for the seahorses. Total water volume will be roughly 700-800L which is plenty, but i'm just not sure about physical space.

Sorry for the rant, just a concerned parent is all :lmao:

 

[pledosophy]

Most people prefer to keep seahorses at temps under 74.

Having the two temps is the issue IMO.

 

[Lukey]

Temps aren't an issue, I run my tank at 25-26 degrees. Chiller kicks in at 26 to cool to 25. But sits mostly steady round 25. To clarify that's in celsius obviously.

I would be keeping the temps the same for both tanks, as my corals to date have found it fine and know many people with fish based tanks which are the same.

It's mostly the issue of physical space for them right now i'm concerned with. I have considered other events like BTA's deciding to stick themselves in powerheads etc, but I already have netting over my powerheads for the seahorses so don't really expect this to be a large problem (touch wood).

 

[rayjay]

Well I tried 77°F and I think that's the same at 25°C and I had bacterial problems so now I don't go over 74°F which would be about 23.3°C.

 

[Lukey]

Just as an aside, I think comparing stock between America and Australia may be very different. I'm not 100% sure about the setup over there but over here it's basically done by one mob, they're called Seahorse Sanctuary, and they're where most of the Aussie captive bred stock is sourced from. I ensure all my stock comes from here also.

I'm not 100% sure, but I would imagine that the good quality stock also helps to reduce bacterial infection problems occurring, and thus may be why I can get away with running temperatures slightly higher than usual. Like I said though not sure of American stock and weather it's mostly wild caught, or what the breeding programs are like over there etc. I do understand the logic of running temperatures lower to reduce risks of infection, however on my budget I simply can't do it as the weather here for 3/4 of the year is very warm and the cost to cool my tank with the chiller kicking in constantly would blow my electricity bill out to something very high! Being a student this hobby is expensive hehe.

 

[rayjay]

Well all I can say is that of the six seahorses I purchased that were bred at Seahorse Sanctuary, only one survived and I personally feel that the bacterial infections they came down with were due to temperatures above the recommended levels.
I lost a pair of reidi, barbs and the male angustus, while I still have the female angustus from that original order.
On seahorse.org I know I have seen posters from down under who have had bacterial problems.
I purchased 5 more of the seahorses from Seahorse Sanctuary last year and like all my other seahorses I now keep them at 70° to 74°. So far so good.
In fact, my pair of SS reidi's just did their thing yesterday and while most of the eggs were left hanging outside the pouch, I'm sure there are some in the pouch as well.
I hope that at the lower range that I will be able to keep most problems from happening like they used to when I had higher temperatures.
IMO, it's not impossible to keep the seahorses in warmer water, but the odds of success are much greater when the water is cool enough to have some resistance to the build up of bacteria like vibriosis.

 

[Lukey]

Wow that's some seriously bad luck there, so many loses with them.....

Anyways like I said water temp can't be changed for me, and I don't plan to. Do need an idea on tank size though...

 

[timinnl]

Wow that's some seriously bad luck there, so many loses with them.....

Anyways like I said water temp can't be changed for me, and I don't plan to. Do need an idea on tank size though...

Please listen to Ray. He knows what is he is talking about. The issue is not where the seahorses come from, it is that the higher the temp, the higher the bacteria load.

SA seahorses are available here in The Netherlands via the UK. Same problem with going at a higher temp.

Kind Regards,

Tim

 

[Lukey]

Just to clarify, I cannot do anything about the temperature, for the third time. And this was the temperature recommended to me by them. I'm taking your concerns on board, but what the f*** can I do? I said I can't afford to cool the tank down to those temperatures constantly, it's simply not plausible, my chiller would be running 24/7. I can't do anything about it, I look after my seahorses well, and they've been happy for many months now. It's a compromise I have to make.

If anyone can answer the question at hand please do.

 

[timinnl]

Then if you can live with it, just use what you have on hand.

 

[Allmost]

I house 4 seahorses and 2 pipe fish and some soft corals in a 25G with a 6" DSB

the tank is connected via overflow to the sump of my Reef tank where I keep only SPS and LPS corals.

nutrition in both tanks are Ultra low (through use of multiple DSBs, algae growing and Zeo products)

the temp runs at about 79. F

the seahorses have been doing fine for the past 6 months.

both tanks are heated via heaters, and chilled via computer fans 4 of them.

as we are expecting a hot summer here in Canada (I know hot and Canada ? ) I will add another fan over the seahorse tank.

Bacteria COULD be an Issue and hotter temp could cause it and also other Issues, although, with good water parameters, I dont think this will be of any concern. I know multiple tanks with same temp around here keeping and breeding seahorses.
I feel like keeping the temp constant will help alot. same as other parameters, most fish can tolerate low or high PH, but only if it is stable ! same goes for temp.

(OF COURSE, the cold water species will not survive, if I were u, Id stick with Brazillian horses as they can tolerate it better. )

 

[rayjay]

Well I know you say you can't keep the temp low, but for others, I'll post this link so people can read how Dan Underwood of Seahorse Source explains the reasoning for the temperature range.
DAN UNDERWOOD ON TEMPERATURE

 

[Allmost]

Well I know you say you can't keep the temp low, but for others, I'll post this link so people can read how Dan Underwood of Seahorse Source explains the reasoning for the temperature range.
DAN UNDERWOOD ON TEMPERATURE

as said on the article, higher temp and high nutrition is bad.

well I dont think the temp matters, if tank has too much nutrition doesnt matter the temp it is bad for the horses.

if tank is ULNS, then u can have any temp. (lol of course not any haha, u get the point though)

 

[timinnl]

as said on the article, higher temp and high nutrition is bad.

well I dont think the temp matters, if tank has too much nutrition doesnt matter the temp it is bad for the horses.

if tank is ULNS, then u can have any temp. (lol of course not any haha, u get the point though)

I think you missed the point of the article.

 

[Allmost]

I think you missed the point of the article.

I dont think so.

"I mentioned with the temperature with few exceptions. Virtually every case I have encountered where the hobbyist has succeeded at warmer temperatures (above 78 degrees) they have had a higher flow rate or feed primarily live foods, namely live shrimp. The higher flow rates do a better job of removing uneaten food, in general are a healthier system and from a casual observation, most of these hobbyist have a more robust filtration scheme."

why does he say live food ? cause it wont degrade water quality if left uneaten
solution : remove the uneaten food (I feed at 10 PM and remove uneaten food at 12 when they goto sleep lol)

also higher water flow, again to remove the uneaten food.

the point of the article is that, if you leave a piece of dead shrimp in water, bacteria will grow on it and it will degrae the water.

now imagine not having that dead shrimp in water !!!

or in other words, a well fed seahorse, with excellent health in perfect water chemistry can live in higher temp happily
although, it is harder to keep the horse well fed and water perfect at higher temps.

 

[Lukey]

Exactly Allmost. I look after my tank well, but really at the end of the day right now it's roughly 700L for 3 seahorses, it's hardly surprising nutrients are easy to keep under control. I keep things in my tank constant, and I agree this is one of the biggest things in a fish tank, and likewise a reef tank. The most important thing for fish and corals I have found is stability (obviously within reason, quite close to the proper values).

I would very much appreciate if anyone can comment on the actual physical space for them though, that would be awesome.

I appreciate all the comments provided, and i've taken them on board, but when you can't physically do anything about it, it's a bit of a moot point.

By all means have a discussion on it though, it's always good to see different points of view from different experiences

 

[ann83]

Physical space... well, they'll use all the physical space you'll give them. Personally, I feel like anything smaller than 75 liters is too small for even a single seahorse of the standard-sized species, just in terms of space to move around in. I don't know what the tank that you are describing works out to, but only 1' wide and 18" front to back just doesn't sound like enough space to me, unless the tank is 3+ feet long.

 

[rayjay]

If you really want to see how bad your tank husbandry is, remove everything slowly and see all the decaying mysis that you can't blow out to remove because it gets trapped too much.
When you think you have a pretty clean tank, in fact, there is all kinds of decayed matter just sitting there waiting to have bacteria feed on it.
I was amazed at the crap still in my tanks after blasting with a Hagen 802 power head, plus a turkey baster that ended up not working as well as the power head.
Now, I put my live rock in the sump and don't have so much food trapped, and, the seahorses are much more visible to me.

 

[Lukey]

I don't know what the tank that you are describing works out to, but only 1' wide and 18" front to back just doesn't sound like enough space to me, unless the tank is 3+ feet long.

Tank is 2ft long, 1ft wide, and 18" tall/deep/high.

If you really want to see how bad your tank husbandry is, remove everything slowly and see all the decaying mysis that you can't blow out to remove because it gets trapped too much.

I did this when I moved from a 3ft tank to the 5x2x2.6 tank, and the 3ft whilst did have some small build up was remarkably better than I expected. I expect this is due to the 3 peppermint shrimps, along with the massive bristleworm population in the tank. The peppermints come out happily during day time and will pick up leftovers from the ground and within live rock and the same to the bristleworms. Mind you, I keep most of my live rock elevated so that the risk of deadspots is much further reduced (I use some PVC tubing, seems to work best to alleviate this). I do regularly once a week give everything a bit of a blast with the Resun 15000lph as well just to make sure their aren't large detritus buildups, and I just run a fine net over the end of the weir into the sump so I can remove as much as possible.

Now, I put my live rock in the sump and don't have so much food trapped, and, the seahorses are much more visible to me.

This is the plan for the side tank which would become attached, no live rock, just some fake bright plants/ornaments/whatever, and have a feeding dish for them to feed from as opposed to the water column as it is now.

 

[ann83]

Tank is 2ft long, 1ft wide, and 18" tall/deep/high.

That's actually what I meant. Don't ask me why I wrote "back to front" instead of "tall".

If there is no LR, there might be enough swimming room for them, but make sure you really fill the tank with hitches, at all levels.

Also, with a feeding dish, part of what Dan was getting at in the link Ray posted was that live food doesn't "settle" (aside from the possible gut fauna carried by it). Using a feeding dish encourages the food to settle. Which, can be fine, I do it. But, to make up for having them eat food off a surface, you need to be meticulous at removing uneaten food, and also meticulous at cleaning the feeding dish.