stringcheese
New member
Who has set up a monaco style aquarium? How has it worked for you?
Monaco style tanks??
- Thread starter stringcheese
- Start date
The term plenum would probably job more people's memory around here
They have fallen out of favor in the last few years with the popularity of DSB's (deep sand beds) that accomplish the same thing in terms of nitrate reduction. DSB's don't seem to have the logevity of a plenum.
Plenums still work well and I don't understand why more people don't use them. I have debated setting one up several times but just never have. J. Sprung has written extensively about them and is a proponent. Here is a recent TOTM that runs one:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/totm/index.php
Maybe Menard can answer your questions if you PM him.
hth, Chris
They have fallen out of favor in the last few years with the popularity of DSB's (deep sand beds) that accomplish the same thing in terms of nitrate reduction. DSB's don't seem to have the logevity of a plenum.
Plenums still work well and I don't understand why more people don't use them. I have debated setting one up several times but just never have. J. Sprung has written extensively about them and is a proponent. Here is a recent TOTM that runs one:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/totm/index.php
Maybe Menard can answer your questions if you PM him.
hth, Chris
stringcheese
New member
Thanks Doc.
I bought the prescribed components last night. i'm going to set up a small one in my sump. When finished it should be 5tx18wx24l and covered in aragonite. Thing about aragonite is I can buy Live Sand at $1.00/lb (LFS) or bagged stuff $44.00 for 40lbs. Go figure. I think I'll need like 60lbs to complete. With eggcrate and fiberglass screen and spacers should be around $80 to construct. Considerably cheaper then alternatives. IMO DSB's probably more dough.
I understand I should attempt to create zero water movement in an semicontained atmosphere. It'll be neat if it works like I've read it can.
I bought the prescribed components last night. i'm going to set up a small one in my sump. When finished it should be 5tx18wx24l and covered in aragonite. Thing about aragonite is I can buy Live Sand at $1.00/lb (LFS) or bagged stuff $44.00 for 40lbs. Go figure. I think I'll need like 60lbs to complete. With eggcrate and fiberglass screen and spacers should be around $80 to construct. Considerably cheaper then alternatives. IMO DSB's probably more dough.
I understand I should attempt to create zero water movement in an semicontained atmosphere. It'll be neat if it works like I've read it can.
MCsaxmaster
New member
Rob Toonen et al., did a study a few years back and found no impact on water quality when using a plenum vs. straight sand. I see no benefit from using a plenum, and therefore no reason to go to the trouble of making one...
stringcheese
New member
I just read his study and while horribly boring I agree his conclusions don't support the plenum theory. However, I wish his study had been longer.
MCsaxmaster
New member
Why do yo wish it had been longer? They put quite a lot of time into it as it was IMHO.
stringcheese
New member
Study was 120 days. The other assummed quality of a plenum was supposed to be a high rate of calcium replenishment. i don't think Toonen even tested that. He did however test denitarfying abilitise PH phosphate levels ect. The book i learned of Monaco style or Plenum systems did state they were less maintainence and that they produced enough calcium into system to replace dosing.
All of Toonen tanks were bare. He simulated wastes but didn't add any organisms that repleat calcium levels.
The reason I wanted a plenum to begin with was for the calcium. So now I'm effectively back to ground zero on my research.
All of Toonen tanks were bare. He simulated wastes but didn't add any organisms that repleat calcium levels.
The reason I wanted a plenum to begin with was for the calcium. So now I'm effectively back to ground zero on my research.
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Big E
Premium Member
I used a plenum for 3 years & when I took it down the substrate was spotless. It worked very well.
That Toonen study was useless imo, as the difference in a DSB & plenum needs to be measured in years not months.
These systems are NOT the same & are maintained differently. A plenum is vacumed occasionally & is kept clean this way. You only have to vacum the upper inch or two. Over years phosphate shouldn't be an issue if you follow the guidelines. Minimal rock/substrate interface is a must & an aquascape that allows for good flow.
The DSB is supposed to be undisturbed(no vacuming) & will act as a sink over the years. Phosphate could eventually become an issue. I've never seen or heard of a DSB that hasn't accumulated a large amount of waste over time. How detrimental this is can be debated, but the fact is the dirt is there.
As far a calcium you need a reactor or 2 part for any system.
That Toonen study was useless imo, as the difference in a DSB & plenum needs to be measured in years not months.
These systems are NOT the same & are maintained differently. A plenum is vacumed occasionally & is kept clean this way. You only have to vacum the upper inch or two. Over years phosphate shouldn't be an issue if you follow the guidelines. Minimal rock/substrate interface is a must & an aquascape that allows for good flow.
The DSB is supposed to be undisturbed(no vacuming) & will act as a sink over the years. Phosphate could eventually become an issue. I've never seen or heard of a DSB that hasn't accumulated a large amount of waste over time. How detrimental this is can be debated, but the fact is the dirt is there.
As far a calcium you need a reactor or 2 part for any system.
stringcheese
New member
I'm not going to pretend I know what a 2 part is. I do know what a calcuim reactor is. I also know that, at this time, it's out of reach for me.
I'll re-read 'Naturatl reef Aquariums' tonight. I swear John Tullock wrote the Plenum will return calcium.
I still thank everyone here for this priceless information. Without RC I wouldn't be privilaged enough to acquire this info.
-Mike
The StringCheese Kid
I'll re-read 'Naturatl reef Aquariums' tonight. I swear John Tullock wrote the Plenum will return calcium.
I still thank everyone here for this priceless information. Without RC I wouldn't be privilaged enough to acquire this info.
-Mike
The StringCheese Kid
MCsaxmaster
New member
Plenums (and sand beds) will not contribute significant amounts of calcium or alkalinity to the tank water. You won't get net dissolution of calcium carbonate in sea water unless the pH is dropped much below that of surface waters and/or you increase the pressure to many hundreds of atmospheres. The sand used over the plenum or in a sand bed doesn't dissolve significantly, and the small amount of dissolution that could occur might precipitate within the bed before leaving (providing nothing to the tank) or will provide so little as to be negligible.
Two-part additive systems (there are many by many manufacturers) are solutions (part A and B, or 1 and 2, or something to that effect) where one solution is very rich in calcium and the other is very rich in alkalinity. Generally the two are made up to the proper concentrations so that equal volumes will yield balanced additions of calcium and alkalinity.
cj
Two-part additive systems (there are many by many manufacturers) are solutions (part A and B, or 1 and 2, or something to that effect) where one solution is very rich in calcium and the other is very rich in alkalinity. Generally the two are made up to the proper concentrations so that equal volumes will yield balanced additions of calcium and alkalinity.
cj
stringcheese
New member
Thanks again everyone.
Here is my plan.
I am going to set up a small plenum in my sump (45 gal rubbermaid). I'll make it out of the perscribed alternating layers of egg crate and fiberglass window screen and cover it with a 2" layer of aragonite. This should become about 1150CU.IN of plenum space. And then , for now, I will suppliment 2 part. I shouldn't have to suppliment much since all I have for corals are some leathers and a kenya tree thus far. None of which are condusive to growing most of the stony corals. I would like to have some encrusting corals and some "table top" or scroll corals in the future but need to find which ones will not be effected by the toxic leathers. Sometines it seems like there is just way too much to worry about.
Here's my tank specs so far. I'll post some picturea for all of you that helped me in the next week or so.
45g tank
45g rubbermaid sump
700 gph overflow return
2x250 gph PH's
90 lbs LR
Coralife super skimmer
1 coral beauty
1 6-line
4 green chromis
1 dragon or banded goby
1 bicolor blennie
2 royal grammas
1 4" toadstool
1 3" kenya tree
3 assorted 2" finger laethers
1 recovering electric green paly rock(coming back to life)
1 G. Chiragra
1 giant nass snail
hawiian zebra and blue legged hermits
Here is my plan.
I am going to set up a small plenum in my sump (45 gal rubbermaid). I'll make it out of the perscribed alternating layers of egg crate and fiberglass window screen and cover it with a 2" layer of aragonite. This should become about 1150CU.IN of plenum space. And then , for now, I will suppliment 2 part. I shouldn't have to suppliment much since all I have for corals are some leathers and a kenya tree thus far. None of which are condusive to growing most of the stony corals. I would like to have some encrusting corals and some "table top" or scroll corals in the future but need to find which ones will not be effected by the toxic leathers. Sometines it seems like there is just way too much to worry about.
Here's my tank specs so far. I'll post some picturea for all of you that helped me in the next week or so.
45g tank
45g rubbermaid sump
700 gph overflow return
2x250 gph PH's
90 lbs LR
Coralife super skimmer
1 coral beauty
1 6-line
4 green chromis
1 dragon or banded goby
1 bicolor blennie
2 royal grammas
1 4" toadstool
1 3" kenya tree
3 assorted 2" finger laethers
1 recovering electric green paly rock(coming back to life)
1 G. Chiragra
1 giant nass snail
hawiian zebra and blue legged hermits
stringcheese
New member
Oh, and 150w hqi 15000k and dual t5 HO actinics
Big E
Premium Member
The plenum has to be 4" to work properly. Make sure you use aragonite that is in the 2-4 mm size. I used a mix of crushed coral & Caribsea reef sand #00050 for the first two inches. Then just the reef sand for the upper 2".
The plenum void area needs to be 1-1 1/2".
beagle,
Heres a link .....
http://www.pgjr.alpine.k12.ut.us/aqua/plenum.html
If you need more info----
Get a copy of "Live Sand Secrets" by Bob Goemans. It's a small little paperback book that explains everything.
http://www.aquariumguys.com/lisasebobybo.html
The plenum void area needs to be 1-1 1/2".
beagle,
Heres a link .....
http://www.pgjr.alpine.k12.ut.us/aqua/plenum.html
If you need more info----
Get a copy of "Live Sand Secrets" by Bob Goemans. It's a small little paperback book that explains everything.
http://www.aquariumguys.com/lisasebobybo.html
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stringcheese
New member
Plenum is semi trapped water with near zero oxygen and water flow levels under bed of aragonite that produces denitrafying(nitrate eating) bacterias.
Mine is being built out of fiberglass screen, eggcrate, Beer bottles(for height), and Aragonite.
Mine is being built out of fiberglass screen, eggcrate, Beer bottles(for height), and Aragonite.
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