montis not happy

HiImSean

Member
my monti digitata was my first coral, it was doing well at first then started getting pale and poylps were retracted. i also purchased a rainbow monti and it was doing very well at first. i have it pretty high in my tank and one side started looking tissue so i moved it lower in my tank thinking its the light but now im thinking its not, since its been lower for about a week and the tissue seems to be STNing. i have a few birdsnest, 2 millie and a garf frag doing great. i've inspected for pest and dipped so i dont think its nudis. here are my parameters. im dosing in any way. my tank is 5.5g, par38 bulb for light, purigen in the filter and i do 15% weekly water changes

sg - 1.024
temp - 79*
pH - 8.2
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0
po4 - .02ppm
alk - 10.1dKH
Ca - 400ppm
Mg - 1315ppm
 
What kind of test kits are you using? how often do you test? I wounder since its a small tank and the 3/4 of a gallon water changes maybe a swing in parameters. your nitrates seem low to me do you have any fish in there. if not maybe they are starving? maybe do a 10%water change every other week, but check your parameters frequently. what type of lighting do you have?
 
been using seachem and salifert test kits. i test every couple weeks. no fish as of yet, plan on adding a small clown tomorrow after almost 3 months of the tank running. my light is a par38 LED bulb.
 
I would cut back on the water changes then and check your water two times a.week. sounds like there isn't anything to feed them. I would also supplement alk and cal instead of the water changes. I'm not familiar with that light and the intensity. Nitrate between 2-5 is good,some people have.there's at 10.
 
I'm going to hijack your thread for a minute here, as it sounds like we have similar problems.

My montipora has been with me a long time, maybe 8 months or so and parts of it are retracted and look pale, and like the tissue looks thin somehow.

In the picture I have circled the faded/retracted parts. I cant see any nudibranchs, but I dont know if they are something that is actually see-able to the naked eye or if they hide or what. There is a bald patch about 1/4" diameter on the back side of the most affected branch.

Other montipora species seem unnafected, and I have pokerstar, and 4 colors of capricornis. My orange digitata seems a bit retracted as well, but not to the same extent, and my green digitata is unnafected.

Ideas?

edit: I should mention that I noticed one small branch like this about 2 weeks ago, but thought nothing of it until a few days ago when I noticed that a large portion of the m. digitata pictured was now in the same shape. So its taken about 3 weeks to progress from unnoticable to about half the coral.
 

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After I posted, I remembered that there is a guy two blocks from me who breeds benthic sharks (epaulettes, bamboo cats, etc).

Anyway, he gave me a tour a while ago, and he has a dissecting scope.

I went over just now, and here is what I found. Can someone confirm black bugs for me? There were a good number of them, and they were moving. The pic isnt that great, but its the best I could get with his mount.
 

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@HiImSean: Three potential issues that I can see based on my experiences:

1. I would get your specific gravity up to 1.025 - 1.026. IME nothing good ever happens to SPS corals below 1.025.

2. I was told a long time ago that SPS prefer dKH closer to 9.0 than numbers above 10.0 (I used to keep mine between 10.5 - 11.0). I used to think a dKH above 10 with Ca in the 450+ range would help speed up growth. That may have been true in theory. However, I have found far fewer problems with a dKH between 9.0 - 9.5. That could just be that my parameters require far less tinkering then when I was trying to keep the dKH above 10.5 and are therefore more stable when I target 9.0 - 9.5. Either way, I have fewer problems at 9.0 - 9.5. It could be your frequent water changes are pushing your dKH higher as well.

3. What kind of lighting are you using, how many watts per gallon do you have, and when was the last time you changed your bulbs? Anytime more than one SPS that has been doing well starts to pale in my tank, I start thinking my MH bulbs need to be changed. If you read this month's ReefKeeping Tank of the Month article online, Reefsmac talks about similar deterioration when his LED's started to reach their end of life. If your montis have been happy for months and are now losing color and polyp extension, your lighting spectrum many be changing due to the age of your bulbs. I have a couple of monti caps at the top of my tank that will actually start to pale and then brown when my 20K Radiums begin to reach their end of life. I'm told as Radiums age their light spectrum shifts from blue to more red, which in my tank is always indicated by increasing amounts of green algae showing up on the glass in my display tank, but not in my refugium.

Your issue may be a "totality of the circumstances" problem where the salinity, dKH, and lighting may all three be contributing to the issue. Make small changes and be patient waiting for positive results. They may take weeks/months.

Good luck.
 
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thanks john. i've since retested my SG and it's at 1.025. I will work on my dKH. the lightis a RapidLED par38 bulb, it is about 8mo so i dont think the bulbs are going bad. it is about 21watts of cree LEDs over a 5.5g. it is only the digitata that has turned pale. the monti and digitata have lost tissue though.
 
Watts per gallon is an old way of doing things to my knowledge. the ways reflectors are now a days you can get away with a little less watts.

I'm pretty sure LEDs get a longer life then 8 months. I may be wrong but you shouldn't have to change bulbs for years. Id look and see how many hours the manufacturer says they are good for.
 
Can someone confirm black bugs for me? There were a good number of them, and they were moving.


I can't tell from the picture, but a quick dip will tell you. When I had them my montis rebounded instantly when I dipped a few. Then came the whole tank tear apart and treatment .....
 
I think the Cree based LED's are good for something in the range of 30,000 hours. For Reefsmac (January ReefKeeping Tank of the Month), he started having some issues after two years. Who really knows. LED's are such a relatively new technology. It may take some more time before we really know what the working life of the bulbs are. I agree though; 8 months is way too early to look at the LED's as a problem. If anything, it may be that the PAR values are a little on the high side.

The only other thing I can think now that I realized the tank is 5.5 gallons is that there may be some temperature instability. Who knows. I admire HiImSean's b*lls for trying SPS in a 5.5 gallon tank.
 
@HiImSean: Are you using RO/DI water when you're doing the water changes? There could be nitrates, phosphates, and other trace elements in the water if you're using tap water from your office.

Good luck!
 
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