Moorish Idol idea

[SantaMonica]

After thinking about the difficulty of Idols, it seems that their feeding problems might be something simple that has not been recognized yet. Like with blue ribbon eels: the reason they don't eat is because they know their long body is visible and might be seen; if you give them a long pipe to put their body into, they eat every time.

Maybe something similar for Idols, something that has nothing to do with food.

 

[pinnatus]

Not sure of a problem feeding Idols. Seems like most will eat. Mine eats everything. The problem is more along the lines that they just suddenly die. Mine is nearly 8 yrs old.

 

[Tripod1404]

I agree with pinnatus, the issue with idos isn't "not accepting food", it is loss of appetite after some point. Idols will except almost every type of food when first collected. There was an article or forum post (I do not remember exactly) from a guy that collected these fish in Mexico. He said after collection, even inside the boats, idols would try to eat pieces of paper towel that fell into the fish holding containers. So he expressed his bewilderment, why these fish had feeding problems later in aquarium life.

It might be caused chronic stress these idols encounter in aquarium life. It might be resulting from us not able to create their social environment, in wild they live as pairs or small schools but in aquariums they are generally aggressive towards each other. Not having a companion might be a leading cause of stress. They also have a very specific diet that is based on sponges and corals. Those sources might contain something that our conventional foods are missing. Idol diet might need a specific essential compound that we dont know. Think about cats, amino acid arginine is an essential compound for them. If cats eat even a single meal that lacks arginine they can die. Because their bodies cannot produce arginine, but they require arginine to metabolize ammonia into urea (called urea cycle). Without arginine, this cannot happen and ammonia starts to accumulate and eventually poison the animal. If you feed cats with a diet low in arginine (so it has arginine but in small amounts), initially they look fine but eventually they start to lose weight, lose appetite and in the end die. This is amazingly similar to what idols experience. I dont know if there are biochemical studies on idols, but it would be interesting.

 

[Tripod1404]

and this is the article;
http://petcha.com/pets/tips-on-helping-the-moorish-idol-to-survive-in-captivity/

"With Moorish idols, there is much more that you get than what immediately matches your observations. This species has always intrigued me because it dies so easily, yet it was so amazingly robust when we’d collect it in Mexico. In Mexico, these fish were kept with other more valuable species in bait receivers, eating paper towels and orange peels – and they lived! How could this be the same species? I believe that there is a range of adaptability by species to captive conditions, and I think that the Moorish idol is just not very adaptable."

 

[Becks]

I've mentioned this a few times regarding moorish idol posts, someone had great success with his moorish idol by collecting brown seaweed from his local pier and feeding that, they eat brown seaweed in the wild so I suspect its diet.

 

[SantaMonica]

Well, what I was alluding too might be something simple that has not been identified yet. After all, "cryptic" has been used to describe them.

For example, people often say the Idol shipped ok, but failed once in the tank. And shipping of course would be in the dark. Well maybe similar to the blue ribbon eel, since the Idol has the long streamer, it too is afraid of being seen/eaten and thus needs very deep caves or holes to hide in so that the entire streamer is well out of view. These would probably be 12 inch caves, which no reef tank would have.

 

[Sounds Fishy]

I do not know what role water parameters play,but I think regular water changes are a must(I changed out between 5 to 10 gallons each day,using reef crystals and RODI water),and keeping all parameters steady.Mine was a steady eater,and on the thick size,and required space( 220g XH).Within a year he had outgrown my reef aquarium,and I sold him to someone with a 500 gallon.
I do not think there is any one thing that you can say is the magic procedure to follow when you are lucky enough to have a healthy,long lived Idol.There are several.

 

[Naraku]

Did it still mainly eat frozen food? You were able to sustain it on frozen?

I do not know what role water parameters play,but I think regular water changes are a must(I changed out between 5 to 10 gallons each day,using reef crystals and RODI water),and keeping all parameters steady.Mine was a steady eater,and on the thick size,and required space( 220g XH).Within a year he had outgrown my reef aquarium,and I sold him to someone with a 500 gallon.
I do not think there is any one thing that you can say is the magic procedure to follow when you are lucky enough to have a healthy,long lived Idol.There are several.

 

[pinnatus]

So, I am one data point, but I do have a long-lived Idol. I am a lazy aquarist. My water parameters are sometimes OK other times poor when I don't bother to change the water for a long while. Then I might do a bunch of changes to bring it back. Sometimes I run carbon, sometimes not. Sometimes I dump my skimmer, sometimes not. I keep my salinity in a range, but not at a specific number, and it may change around over time. I don't generally check my water parameters, but I am sure my nitrates are through the roof. Feeding-wise, I mostly feed pellets. Sometimes I get on a kick and feed lots of different types of frozen foods (usually when I get a new fish that I am trying to get eating), then other times I feed nothing but pellets for long periods of time. I have never fed sponge. I medicate with copper, with Prazi, and with Paraguard from time to time when needed. I have never quarantined. My Idol has been through all of this. Over nearly 8 years. In fact, my Idol has survived Ick outbreaks that wiped out other supposedly more hardy members of my tank. It is now the oldest fish I have.

So, the question is why has it lasted so long versus others that haven't? I am not sure. Maybe it is an exceptional individual. Maybe I notice signs that others miss, since I have been keeping fish for 43 years, so maybe I react to the changes that others miss. Here are the things I think I do know:

1. I do know that mine arrived healthy and in great shape, and I do believe that shipping is a major issue with these fish.
2. I do know that they need greens in their diet. Whether algae on the rocks, byropsis, or Nori, they need it. Sponge? Not that I have seen. But if they don't have greens for a while, the pennant stops growing, or at least slows down. A healthy Idol's pennant grows like crazy, maybe a half inch a day. It will stop, but if you feed Nori, it will start growing again. I have seen this over and over.
3. I do believe that they need a lot of room. I have an 8ft tank, and I think that helps.
4. When young, they need to eat all day long. They don't eat much at a time, so they need to graze all the time. If food isn't available all day, that might do them in.
5. They are somewhat timid, and need to be in a tank that has no aggressors.

So, that is my 2 cents.

 

[Sounds Fishy]

Did it still mainly eat frozen food? You were able to sustain it on frozen?

As Pinnatus points out,they need greens daily.That is a must.Mine ate several times daily and other than macro algae ,and Nori,it ate mostly all frozen food,several times a day...brine shrimp,mysis,red worms etc. It seemed to especially like frozen oyster eggs,and oysters.It didn't seem to like pellets.One reason my water changes were so generous was to help with the resultant rise in phosphates.
I think an 8' long aquarium for an Idol is ideal.
Water circulation is very important IMO as well .I had 12 power heads as well as a gyre working in my reef.