jharding08
BlueWorldAquatics.com
what are the rules on flow rate through the sump. I would assume pushing as much water through filter media is best, but if it is too fast, does the skimmer not operate as efficiently as it should?
Moving Iwaki to other side of wall
- Thread starter jharding08
- Start date
uncleof6
Active member
The more the merrier as it were. The "general rule" (common advice) is low flow through the sump. However, this is a bit of misunderstanding the concept of recirulating systems. Low flow actually reduces the effiency of the skimmer, and increasing the flow rate of course, increases the efficiency, by keeping the concentration of dissolved organics higher. Randy put it better than I have in a long time: if it was a single pass operation, low flow would be best. However, since it is not a single pass process, higher flow is more efficient. This is what I am driving at with discussions concerning recirculative flow rates, surface renewal, gas exchange and other topics. Once you get to how things really work, the arguments for "low flow through the sump" are not based on anything other than power savings, and circulation in the tank, (powerheads) cannot add to or make up for, the "recirculative flow rate."
The most direct answer to your question is, the efficiency of the skimmer is not dependant on the flow rate through the sump, rather the flow rate through the skimmer; tied to the amount of time it will take to remove a given amount of organic waste (based on the concentration.) If that makes sense to you. E.G. matching the flow through the sump to the flow through the skimmer is a bit ridiculous, once you understand how these things really work.
The most direct answer to your question is, the efficiency of the skimmer is not dependant on the flow rate through the sump, rather the flow rate through the skimmer; tied to the amount of time it will take to remove a given amount of organic waste (based on the concentration.) If that makes sense to you. E.G. matching the flow through the sump to the flow through the skimmer is a bit ridiculous, once you understand how these things really work.
jharding08
BlueWorldAquatics.com
One more question
One more question
So I am planning out the plumbing and I am going to have to have some horizontal runs on the outlet of the Iwaki, since the Iwaki will be sitting on the right side of the tank (looking at the tank), and the return is going in the middle of the tank, left of the iwaki. The manifold is sitting to the left I wont be able to run a straight up and back in from the outlet of the pump, I will need to run a horizontal run for the manifold location, T'ed off from the 1.5" vertical pipe coming from the outlet of the pipe and a 90 at the top that runs horizontal to the middle of the tank and then through the wall directly into the tank
Is it ok to make a tree in order to get to the proper horizontal location for going through the wall? I could move the manifold over to the right, so it wouldnt need a horizontal run, could i put the return on the right side of the tank, or is middle best?
Current location of manifold, I think if I run straight back from the outlet pipe, i can reach without having to go horizontal from the 1.5
One more question
So I am planning out the plumbing and I am going to have to have some horizontal runs on the outlet of the Iwaki, since the Iwaki will be sitting on the right side of the tank (looking at the tank), and the return is going in the middle of the tank, left of the iwaki. The manifold is sitting to the left I wont be able to run a straight up and back in from the outlet of the pump, I will need to run a horizontal run for the manifold location, T'ed off from the 1.5" vertical pipe coming from the outlet of the pipe and a 90 at the top that runs horizontal to the middle of the tank and then through the wall directly into the tank
Is it ok to make a tree in order to get to the proper horizontal location for going through the wall? I could move the manifold over to the right, so it wouldnt need a horizontal run, could i put the return on the right side of the tank, or is middle best?
Current location of manifold, I think if I run straight back from the outlet pipe, i can reach without having to go horizontal from the 1.5
jharding08
BlueWorldAquatics.com
Also, what is the best location for the 1/2" bulkhead in the sump? Dead center of the sump? Should I use a down-turned 90 on the inside of the sump? Should it be so that the down-turned 90 is 1/4" from the bottom of the sump, like in the overflow?
jharding08
BlueWorldAquatics.com
Sorry, meant 1 1/2" bulkhead. I am doing the Iwaki install this weekend. Wish me luck (especially with cutting the hole in the acrylic with a right angle drill).
Any feedback on if I should run the top of the outlet horizontally to the center of the tank or just put the outlet 45 in line with the pump on the right side (facing the tank) of the tank?
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
Have you considered just replacing your current pump with one of the much quieter variable speed DC powered ones instead of this elaborate relocation scheme?
Beananimal's review of the Waveline 5000:
http://www.beananimal.com/other/waveline-dc5000-variable-speed-dc-pump.aspx
You could do this in an hour instead of this 7 week long Q & A session you have going on here with no holes in the wall.
Beananimal's review of the Waveline 5000:
http://www.beananimal.com/other/waveline-dc5000-variable-speed-dc-pump.aspx
You could do this in an hour instead of this 7 week long Q & A session you have going on here with no holes in the wall.
jharding08
BlueWorldAquatics.com
I'm liking the write up. Would the DC5000 be plumbed with 1", 1.25" or 1.5" plumbing on inlet and outlet?
I'm going to have to have a 'pump yard sale' once I find the right one for my situation
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
Well, like Uncleof6 said, the wider the pipe, the better the flow, but I don't know specifically what the DC series should be plumbed with. I would suggest contacting the company like beananimal did and asking them. Also, there is a whole series of these pumps that should give you what you need in the way of head hight and flow rate.
I have a 465 gallon SPS reef with an Iwaki 70 on it, and mine is plumbed with 1.5" fittings in and out, although the pump itself has 1" FPT physical inlet/outlet.
If you could go larger, then all the better, and you definitely want to go at least 1 size larger on the inlet side if you are going to have a 90 degree bend between the sump and the inlet of the pump. Less likely to get cavitation that way.
jharding08
BlueWorldAquatics.com
If I am going to keep the pump in the stand, then I will have to have a 90 off of the sump bulkhead. I am prepared to go with 1.5" for all return line plumbing. I will just have to drill the 1.5" bulkhead hole over top of the 1" bulkhead hole that is there now. Not sure how hard that will be
jharding08
BlueWorldAquatics.com
Also, how come I can only find the DC-4000, 6000, 10000 and 12000. Is there a DC-5000?
chrismhaase
Active member
I have this pending question to with plans to do a 150 or 180 display. I need it to be absolutely silent as it will be in the living room. Wife won't approve an already questionable 3rd tank startup, that is also the largest...
What is the quietest external pump??
chrismhaase
Active member
Yeah clean works, and I violate my own advice at times, depending on "the client is always right" concept....
Uncle - do you recommend this design or are you saying that this is one of those customers are always right?
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
http://www.tbaquatics.com/index.php...ucts_id=1627&gclid=CIi90aWu8r4CFQIT7Aod51oA6w
You'll find that most of these Asian made DC pumps are the same with different branding, like a Blueline pump is a rebranded Pan World, etc.
uncleof6
Active member
RLSS upgraded their pumps...the DC-5000 is an older model from the RLSS line. I do not encourage, nor endorse "asian made." It is not the same pump.
uncleof6
Active member
Actually, the "Blueline" pumps, were developed by a former chief engineer from Iwaki-Japan... The "Pan World" pumps, are Blueline knockoffs. If you know where to look, you can knockoff an Iwaki, DIY (skills and fab facilities needed
) because the motors are fairly easy to come by.Incidentaly, the RLSS pumps, and the "Asian made DC pumps" use different motors. It is not a branding difference.
uncleof6
Active member
The compliance with "customer is always right" involved the unions below the external overflow. The unions were insisted upon for "maintenance reasons." (This tank will never be moved, or taken down.) If you follow the design, you will notice that the 3 unions on the drains are completely unnecessary, as the pipes are accessible from above. Can you spot why the union on the return is a waste of time? Sometimes it is a bit frustrating, and usually the "customer is always wrong."
I did not use the Spears gate valves however, I just did not model the KBI gate valves...This system has been up and running for ~ 4 years, and flows 3200 gph, with 4 vortecs in tank...I designed it, so of course I recommend it...
Last edited:
uncleof6
Active member
Quietest pumps are the large pumps (reeflo) that use the low rpm (~1600 - 1700 rpm,) Baldor 4-pole motor (Frame: 42YZ.) Most aquarium pumps are running @ 3200 rpm, using a 2-pole motor. I call them wind up toys, because the noise is mostly from the fan, due to the high rpm. With AC motors, the speed is set by the frequency (60/50 Hz) and the number of poles.
The waveline DC pumps, to me anyway, are about the same; perhaps a "bit" more noise, that amounts to a quiet hum.
These AC motors: (no I don't use gates on the pump intake...it was the only 2" valve I had laying around at that time.)
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
Actually, the "Blueline" pumps, were developed by a former chief engineer from Iwaki-Japan... The "Pan World" pumps, are Blueline knockoffs. If you know where to look, you can knockoff an Iwaki, DIY (skills and fab facilities needed
Incidentaly, the RLSS pumps, and the "Asian made DC pumps" use different motors. It is not a branding difference.
Actually, it is the other way around. Pan World Group was established in 1986, and is an international pump manufacturer and distributor, involved in pump manufacture and sales for many applications outside the aquarium industry. BluLine Products is a small aquarium products company. Some Coralife external pumps are rebranded PanWorld pumps as well.
http://www.panworldamericas.com/aboutus.html
And many of the Asian manufactured DC pumps sold in the aquarium industry are the same pumps with different brands. Perhaps not the RLSS pumps, but several brands are.
uncleof6
Active member
http://bluelineaquatics.com/products/water_pump/hd.html
To be honest, however, the iwaki, blueline, panworld, little giant, eheim, mag-drive, and numerous other pumps, are deprecated, and superceded by far better pumps. So it is hardly worth debating who kocked off whom or when...
Last edited:
