moving soon... worried about cycle

S

SharkBait_Mtl

New member
Hi all..

I will be moving into my 1st house within the next few weeks...

I was planning on doing an in-wall but cannot afford it... yet:D

with my water parameters being the way they are (2 year old setup) I am experiencing a bit of a mini cycle. My fish seem to be ok and so do the corals that I have. Last week I did a 60% change (due to nitrates at 100) and I had to do another 20% today. after the change I checked parameters and this is what I have...

ammonia - 0.25
nitrite - 0.25
nitrate - 0.25
phosphate - 0
calcium - 460
pH - 8.0
dkh - 8

Now my question is...

when I move the tank, would it be a good idea to treat it as a new setup?

how much water do I move if not all?

should I keep my fish in rubbermaid trash bins until the tank finishes it's cycle or possibility of a new cycle?

can I keep the corals in the DT or do I have to put them in bins as well? if I put them in the rubbermaid bins I will not have a skimmer for them... how often will I have to change the water in the bins?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13035403#post13035403 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Playa-1
I don't see how your nitrates could go from 100 to .25 with two water changes in the period of a week. I'm not buying that for a second.
So what's really going on?
How did you get to this position?
Why is your water cycling?
Click to expand...

If they really changed 80 percent of their water in a period of a week, there is a high likelihood that their nitrates dropped to that number.

Don't be so quick to judge
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13035430#post13035430 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vader88
If they really changed 80 percent of their water in a period of a week, there is a high likelihood that their nitrates dropped to that number.

Don't be so quick to judge
Click to expand...
That bs
 
After skimming through the thread and you doing the lights out period with the caulerpa, that could be your problem. Take the advice of the more experienced reefers and remove that and add cheato. I didn't look at your setup, but you might want to invest in a phosban reactor, regardless you need to find the root of your problem.


When you do your water changes are you using a food safe container ? I've heard some plastics can leach phosphates.
 
I've moved my tank a couple times. I took everything but the sand out of the display and put them in various rubbermaids. I then moved everything to the new house and set it back up like it was before. As long as you don't disturb the sand too much, you shouldn't see much of a cycle. I didn't see any cycle at all.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13035592#post13035592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vader88
After skimming through the thread and you doing the lights out period with the caulerpa, that could be your problem. Take the advice of the more experienced reefers and remove that and add cheato. I didn't look at your setup, but you might want to invest in a phosban reactor, regardless you need to find the root of your problem.


When you do your water changes are you using a food safe container ? I've heard some plastics can leach phosphates.
Click to expand...

caulerpa is gone, chaeto is there... I have a phosban reactor with activated carbon running through it... I have no phosphates...

my waterchange bins are Rubbermaid roughneck garbage bins... I have checked my water change water, no nitrates or phosphates...

I honestly do not know where my nitrates were coming from... I think it must be the 2 shrimp that disappeared.... but others tell me otherwise....
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13035603#post13035603 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by centipede
I've moved my tank a couple times. I took everything but the sand out of the display and put them in various rubbermaids. I then moved everything to the new house and set it back up like it was before. As long as you don't disturb the sand too much, you shouldn't see much of a cycle. I didn't see any cycle at all.
Click to expand...

with the ammomia and the nittrite in my tank it is going throug ha mini cycle... plz correct me if I am wrong...


now when I move how much of the water do I move... all of it??

if I only move 50% of it with the mini cycle going on now will it start another mini cycle?
 
The test kits we get as consumers won't even pick up phosphates especially if some type of algae is consuming them.

Carbon in the phosban reactor is not going to help with phosphates, only phosban or comparable.

Depending on your CUC, two shrimp dying should not cause much of ammonia spike if any. If your having nitrite and ammonia problems, your definitely getting some type of cycle. I would think it something much more major than a couple of shrimp.

My only guess here is your overfeeding
 
I just skimmed thru the thread. It looks like you have been living thru a nightmare.

when I move the tank, would it be a good idea to treat it as a new setup?
Treat it like a new setup that you just got cured liverock for except If you do not get a cycle, then move the livestock in after the dust settles or at least 90% of the livestock.

how much water do I move if not all?
You could use existing water to move livestock but if it still is showing Ammonia and nitrites I would replace it all. The water is tainted, You would be wise to get rid of it and start with new water.

should I keep my fish in Rubbermaid trash bins until the tank finishes it's cycle or possibility of a new cycle?
I think it would be a good idea to get the fish out of a tank that is in the middle of a cycle. Hopefully you will not get much of a cycle once you reset the tank up.

can I keep the corals in the DT or do I have to put them in bins as well? if I put them in the Rubbermaid bins I will not have a skimmer for them... how often will I have to change the water in the bins?
The ideal solution would be to see if a lfs could hold all of your livestock for you while you make the move. If that's not feasible then I would not put the corals in a tank that is cycling. They do not carry much of a bioload so if you put them in a container with a powerhead, heater and sufficient lighting then they are good to go. I wouldn't expect you to have to do any other water maintenance to to coral container until your ready to move them.
Just make sure that you match ph, temp and salinity. Then acclimate to the new water.

The fish produce lots of waste. If you put them in a container, a skimmer would be a good idea, but, not absolutely necessary. They will also need a powerhead and heater. The main thing with the fish is that you test the water often, Maybe daily for Ammonia and PH. One of the little hang on Ammonia Alert cards would be a good idea. You may need to do large water changes several times per week to keep the Ammonia in line. You may even need to change water daily. This can be an expensive route.

I would separate the fish from the corals and put the inverts in with the corals.

Now some good news. I would expect the sand bed is carrying lots of the nutrients that have been causing you grief. You need to dump the old sand bed (try and save your critters in there) and when you set the tank up in your new house, use new sand. If your lucky then between the fuge and the liverock, your new set-up will be able to handle the bioload and Viola!!! , Very short cycle, clean tank, pristine water conditions. I wouldn't even seed the new sand with your old sand, but you could seed it with somebody else's.

If you do not already have it, This would be a good time to add a phosphate media reactor and a carbon reactor.

Good luck with the new house

:thumbsup:
 
I just got an idea....


I am signing the papers at the notary for the house on the Aug 6, but I am prolly only moving in on labor day weekend.

I still have my 60g cube.... I am wondering if this would be a good way to do things....

setup the 60 with a new sand bed and put all livestock in there with 10% water from my old tank and a little bit of sand to seed the new sand bed... that way I can use my skimmer (will this tank cycle if I do that?)

This way I will have both my tanks up and running... I could keep the 60g as reef and have the 90 as FOWLR so I can eventually get some angels...

then setup my 90g all new water and let that cycle.

in the end it would save me $$$ on doing daily water changes...



Playa-1... why should I not use a little bit of the old sandbed to seed the new one??? even if it is nutrient rich having a little bit would help the cause by bringing the benefical bacteria in to the setup?? also what would be an easy way to skim through the sand and keep all the critters??? I have a mandarin that needs those little guys to eat... so I think replacing the sand may not be a good idea...

please send me your thoughts...
 
I just spoke with my brother ( I got the 60g from him)

the sandbed in my 90 was transfered from the 60 (2.5-3 year old sand) last year when I tranfered the sand I also added new sand.

so my sandbed is not that old.

or is it??? :confused:

how long do sandbeds last before they need to be replaced???
 
My advice (I went through this last year)...break down your tank and ask your lfs if they could possibly babysit your fish and corals for the duration. Mine would. The fallback would be to qt fish and corals, plain, carbon-filtered glass boxes or polystyrene buckets.

Discard your sand. A sandbed sets up fast.

Protect your rock. Treat it as fish. Carbon filtering and aeration. Here was where I made my big mistake. My rock cooked in the buckets due to lack of filter/aeration, and I had a huge slimey mess that cost me all my inverts associated with the rock. I was so distracted with the complexities of a basement sump setup and the fish store accidentally (too many cooks) selling the sump I'd ordered---I neglected my rock. Two more weeks for another sump, and I had a grey, slimey mess in those tubs.

Set up the tank ASAP. Lay down eggcrate grid under your rocks if you never have: it's great for preventing rock-rolls.

Install rock and WASHED new sand. You should have a minimal cycle of a few days while that sandbed gets going.

I was so upset I didn't even wash off the slime from my poor grayed and slimed rocks---I just stuck them in, sanded and watered, and still it took just a week to cycle, gunky slime and new sand and all. Life is remarkably resilient. Note: I was simultaneously setting up a fuge with live rock and new sand and a big cheato ball; I think the cheato assisted in this fast cycle by absorbing some of the nastiness: both nitrate and phosphate are plant fertilizer.

Another mistake I made: I have a high flow tank and changed to a fine sand DSB: bad. It walked over my corals and blew and undermined. I'm changing back to medium grade aragonite.

Hope my disasters are at least instructive. Have all your ducks in a row and if you can get over there and set up your tank the same day, a huge advantage. Depend on a short but definite cycle.
 
I can ask my LFS but they are limited on space so I dont think they can....

I will have 3 weeks to move...

My idea is... setup the 60G on Aug.6 once I get the keys to the house. Bring in 1/2 the rock from the 90 and let that cycle for 2 weeks or so.... until ammonia and nitrite are undetectable.... once that is set up transfer all livestock from my 90.... and then move my 90... let the 90 cycle without sump/refuge.

I will be setting up both tanks in the basement sharing the same sump/refuge in the aquarium room.

I plan on geting an external skimmer that will be a good enough size for the inwall 200g+ that I plan on putting in within a year or so. Is it a bad Idea to have a skimmer too big for a system or is bigger always better?? and then I will have 2 skimmers running for both tanks...

I have a RDSB with fine sand... so i guess using a coarse sand in the DTs will be the way to go. Is 1" of sand good enough if I am running a RDSB? also I have no sandbed in my refuge... should I put one in there?? if I do what should I go with, fine or coarse?

what about my mandarin?? should I try and give it away to my LFS??? if I start new sand in both tanks there wont be any food for him and I think he will die... he is already barely eating and is very skinny.
 
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