MTC skimmer club!

[jason2459]

I couldn't be happier with the waveline with it's higher head pressure rating compared to other (affordable) internal AC or DC pumps out there.

Adding on now to what I started to put together before.

So lets see some form of percentage of the ratio between cups dry produced vs wattage vs. air draw used
Aquamaxx Em 300
vs. wattage used: 3.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 2.6% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MTC MVX with Mag18 and MVX stock 684 mazzei venturi
vs. wattage used: 4.8% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

MTC MVX with Mag18 and 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.5% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 21.4% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 3.5% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 22.2% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.7% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 27.3% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 3.7% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 22% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 2.6% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 13.6% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 784mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 784mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 23% "performance"



This is all fully assuming that the skimmate production would be exactly the same time after time at each of those levels. Which it's been really pretty steady but I'm sure what pulls 6 cups per day one time might pull 5.5 cups per day and reverse. But I don't see something pulling 3 cups per day gaining that much ground or reverse.

So, my totally unscientific conclusion which is most likely wrong is:

Waveline DC 12000 @ level 9 with the stock 684 mazzei is the winner for highest performance ratio of cups produced to air draw.
Mag 1800 with the stock 684 mazzei is the winnder for highest efficiency ratio of cups produced to wattage used

If looking for as much air draw as possible to say for aeration purposes the Waveline DC 12000 @ level 11 w/ the 784 mazzei is the winner.

If looking for a pump that runs cooler that will still produce something you'd be happy with then the Mag 18 w/ 784 venture. (produced about the same amount of skimmate as with the 684 but it was dryer so could produce more wetter.)

Definitely some unexpected results as I figured the waveline with the 784 was going to really kick the 684's butt. But, what I think is happening, the waveline handled the head height so well the more restricted 684 didn't hurt it at all. The 784 did help the mag18 that doesn't have near the head height rating. In fact I think the 684 may have produced a finer bubble with the waveline vs. with the 784.


and in the end YMMV

There's more I plan to play around with on this skimmer but going to take a break from it for a bit and get back to some other things like my saltmix parameter testing and thread.

 

[jason2459]

Cliffs: This skimmer kicks @$#

 

[jjvanb]

Thanks for posting all your results, you answered a lot questions before they were asked! Last thing I guess... now that you have all these numbers... which pump and settings will you be running on your system?

 

[jason2459]

Thanks for posting all your results, you answered a lot questions before they were asked! Last thing I guess... now that you have all these numbers... which pump and settings will you be running on your system?

If I stopped here it would be the waveline dc 12000 at level 9 with the stock 684 venturi.

I'm going to get the swabbie and apex controller setup next.

 

[jason2459]

I put the 684 mazzei in place and connected to the Apex via a VDM module. Took me a bit to figure out one small detail that was left out of the instructions... Oh wait, there are no instructions that come with it.

You have to have the Waveline controller at the lowest setting before it picks up what the VDM is telling it or at least lower then what the Apex is telling it.

I have it set to 80% which I figured would be close to level 9. It's pulling about 20scfh so it's not quite to the level 9. I'll tweak it higher eventually. I'll let it ride here for a bit.

My quick basic Apex programming which I love I can ramp down the speed once my Davey Jones locker is close to full but not there yet. Kind of slow it down in case it's overflowing for some reason which this skimmer has been super stable so far. I might even get another float in there and get a stepped ramp down process.


Skimmer physical outlet
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Power SumpEB8_7 Off 002 Then OFF
If Outlet vSumpHigh_A7 = ON Then OFF
If Outlet return_7_1 = OFF Then OFF
If Outlet vLockerF_A3 = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON


VDM var1 outlet:
Fallback OFF
Set SkimmerOn
If Outlet vLockerD_A2 = ON Then SkimmerSlow
If Outlet vLockerF_A3 = ON Then OFF

The Profiles:
Name SkimmerOn
Type Pump
Synchronize Disable
Divide by 10 Disable
Initial Off Time 0 seconds
On Time 0 seconds
Off Time 0 seconds
Minimum Intensity 80%
Maximum Intensity 80%


Name SkimmerSlow
Type Pump
Synchronize Disable
Divide by 10 Disable
Initial Off Time 0 seconds
On Time 0 seconds
Off Time 0 seconds
Minimum Intensity 60%
Maximum Intensity 60%

 

[jason2459]

Can't help myself this skimmer is so awesome for being able to customize it. I'm thinking about making it into a dual mazzei venturi with 2 484x mazzei injectors. :wildone:

The 484x gets less water flow then the 584 but slightly more air draw. It isn't much less the air flow of the 684. I may even try it with a single one first at full 100% power and see what happens too.

http://mazzei.net/wp-content/upload...s_Injector_Perf-Tables_2016-07-05_SECURED.pdf

 

[Jayreefer]

Have you ever heard if its not broke don't fix it, lol?

 

[jason2459]

Have you ever heard if its not broke don't fix it, lol?

No fun in that. :beer:

 

[jason2459]

I finally got around to getting the swabbie installed. The wiper just fit in there perfectly. I did have to trim the blade just slightly as there is a little edge on the bottom that I cut to get just above it and even along the entire neck.

The original avast swabbie lid and the motor mounted right on top with nylon screws.

You can buy just the motor and in the instructions you glue it to your existing lid after drilling a center hole for the shaft to go through. I had Jeff drill that center hole for me from the beginning. I don't want to glue the motor to the top in case I don't like it.

So out came the unibit I already had to get a pilot going and then used bits in the 1/4" 20 tpi course tap set.

There is a rubber gasket that goes between

All ready to go

And gets the entire neck to the lip on the quick change fitting

And here we go

 

[jason2459]

Oh yeah, and I have it plugged into the apex which I have that outlet timed for when my AFS feeder is set to feed a mix of nls marine and algaemax pellets 4x per day.

It runs for 2 minutes just before the return pump is shutdown which my skimmer is set to shutdown if the return pump is off and not turn on for 2 minutes after the return has started back up so sump water level is stabilized.

Swabbie outlet
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 11:58 to 12:00 Then ON
If Time 14:58 to 15:00 Then ON
If Time 17:58 to 18:00 Then ON
If Time 20:58 to 21:00 Then ON
If Outlet skimmer_7_5 = OFF Then OFF


Skimmer outlet
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Power SumpEB8_7 Off 002 Then OFF
If Outlet vSumpHigh_A7 = ON Then OFF
If Outlet return_7_1 = OFF Then OFF
If Outlet vLockerF_A3 = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON

Return outlet
Fallback ON
Set ON
If DT_Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet vfeed_A8 = ON Then OFF
Defer 008:00 Then ON

Feeder outlet
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet vfeed_A8 = ON Then ON
If FeedA 000 Then ON
Defer 002:00 Then ON (this delays the feeding to make sure drain lines are fully drained to sump)

Feeder virtual outlet for scheduling
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 12:00 to 12:01 Then ON
If Time 15:00 to 15:01 Then ON
If Time 18:00 to 18:01 Then ON
If Time 21:00 to 21:01 Then ON
If FeedA 000 Then ON


That all helps to get the neck cleaned out which destroys the foam head when its about to be killed any way, enough time for the swabbie to get around almost 2 full rotations, stops food from going straight down the drain, i believe clearing the drains helps clean out the return and skimmer pumps a bit with the back flushing and possible the venturi slightly, and reduces build up of worms like feather dusters in the drain and return lines.

 

[jason2459]

Heck yeah!!! I think I hit the sweet spot.

8 cups per day baby!

I have the waveline dc12000 at 90% pulling right at about 20-22 scfh plus the swabbie. That had to help as by day 3 my collection cup and neck was coated in skimmate.

Check that out lol

Had a good quick call with Jeff from MTC the other day too. I had sent him an email on an oring question and sent him a link to this thread too. He was quite surprised I think. Ha!

He also mentioned he was trying to think why they ended up with the 684 mazzei but its been so long that they've been building skimmers and these venturi ones on request they couldn't exactly remember.

To me it seems like the right choice. That balance between air draw and water flow. On a taller skimmer maybe that 784 would be a little better. I guess I'll just have to save up for that monster external dual venturi starting at 48"! That would be my dream skimmer right there.

Hi Jeff if you're reading this you guys make one hell of a great skimmer. I love it. Thanks so much again for the call back.

 

[jason2459]

I had a question on my ozone setup and use. I've posted this before so most of this will be a copy paste.


You certainly don't need much ozone to produce results. I've also found very small amounts to help skimmer production while higher amounts hinder a good dense foam production. Some people will only run ozone for a couple hours right after lights on with great results.

I have used a 50mg/l redsea aquazone for years and have it down to running 25% for around 200 gallon system volume. That is a very small amount and poses little risk to fish even if GAC wasn't used. I do have a bag of GAC (ROX 0.8) sitting in front of my skimmer's output as a precaution. I do feel it acts like a flocculant at that small amount along with being an oxidizing agent. As others have said it's only one small part to maintaining my system.

More importantly though is that ozone isn't released into the atmosphere for you or anyone else in the house to breath in. (another reason I like very small amounts.) If using a skimmer as a reactor put bags of carbon over the collection cup if there's holes. I used to tape the holes up with duct tape except one of them and shoved my skimmer's airline in it to draw in any excess ozone air back into the skimmer. Lifereef skimmer do this already. My current skimmer is sealed on top with no holes so I don't have to worry about that part (MTC MVX).

Waterkeeper pointed me to these articles a few moons ago and should be read by anyone looking to use ozone.

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley Parts 1, 2, and 3
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php



Posted this just recently but shows how I used to duct tape the holes on top except one to suck back into the skimmer any unused ozone.

The MTC MVX is sealed with a rubber gasket and screwed down. No holes on top.

Now for how I have it all setup airline wise.

I use a T to split off and control freshair flow and airflow from the ozone generator. And you'll see I also use a CO2 scrubber pre ozone generator.

The sodalime CO2 scrubber actually does two things for me. It acts to reduce CO2 going into the skimmer which helps elevate my tanks pH slightly but it also drys the air some as well which makes the ozone generator more efficient.

I T off the air flow going through both the CO2 scrubber and ozone generator as the generator doesn't need that much flow and would actually restrict airflow if I didn't T off and restricting the air flow through the scrubber increases its life as the sodalime would be exhausted much faster if pulling 100% of the air draw through it and I found it doesn't help increase pH that much more doing so.

So
Air in > scrubber > generator > T > skimmer
Air in > T > skimmer.

If that wasn't confusing here's a picture of the airlines which may or may not help clear that up. And you'll love my way of connecting some of these hoses...shoving one into another. Im not concerned with airtight as the air flow through the generator is less then the total airflow.

Air in

Sceubber to generator

Generator to T

Air in to T and T to skimmer

And my ozone generator is controlled by my apex. Monitoring orp should be done when using ozone.

Fallback OFF
If DT_ORP < 400 Then ON
If DT_ORP > 425 Then OFF
If Outlet skimmer_7_5 = OFF Then OFF

 

[JaySchulz]

What's the gallon rating for the MVX?

 

[jason2459]

What's the gallon rating for the MVX?

I don't think there is. I would just try and get the tallest one you can fit. If you're in between they can custom size one.

But if I were to suggest sizes I'd put a 26" on up to a 120. A 30" on up to to a 220. 36" on up to 300's. Then I'd look at getting the external dual mazzei skimmers.

But thats being conservative. I've seen a 24" venturi kicking butt on a 180. You could look at life reef's site for general recommendations at different sizes. They are a fine skimmer too but I liked a few things about the MTC MVX more and went with this one.

 

[jason2459]

And there's always skeptics so No it's not running wet to break past that 6 cups per day mark. Picture already above of the lovely foam head at startup after installing the swabbie but here...

I cleaned this collection cup out last night so I can inspect and make sure the wiper blade didn't need adjusted or tightened as with the avast its connected via just a bolt and nut to the shaft.

1 day in and already starting to not see a darn thing through the collection cup due to the amazingly awesomeness of this skimmer. lol

 

[biecacka]

That is awesome looking results man. The skimmer looks to be the real deal!!!!


Corey

 

[jason2459]

That is awesome looking results man. The skimmer looks to be the real deal!!!!


Corey

It really is. I've never been so impressed with a skimmer before. I mean I was really impressed with the SRO 3000 I had due to the air draw numbers but it's inconsistency was annoying. I was really impressed with my Aquamaxx em500 and seaside aquatics ES5 but because of their impressive consistency.

This skimmer might not have the air draw numbers but it has the consistency and amazing production results that blows everything away that I've used before. Who knows, it may not be the best skimmer ever but it's certainly the best skimmer by far of any skimmer I've used which has been quite a few. And I can't imagine getting more production out of this or any other skimmer. 6-8 cups per day is just mind blowing for me still.

 

[moondoggy4]

I like the skimmer and I just sold a vertex Omega 150 but the high wattage scares me I would go with the 26'' model so I think the Mag 9 should be doable, it will go on a 120 gallon tank. In Ca the elec. rates are very high, tier system.

 

[jjvanb]

Just received my 30" with quick change head! I hooked it up yesterday and its bubbling away. I hope it doesn't take too long to break in. Since I have a low bio load at the moment, I don't expect the volume that Jason2459 is getting. So i created a plug for the drain. Well, that didn't work out, since the drain is the only place for the air to escape, it took me a minute to realize why the skimmer could be full of air while half submersed! I'm reluctant to drill a hole in my new shiny toy, so once it starts producing I'll see how the drain to a container thing works out. (knowing me, I'll forget to empty the container)

 

[jason2459]

I like the skimmer and I just sold a vertex Omega 150 but the high wattage scares me I would go with the 26'' model so I think the Mag 9 should be doable, it will go on a 120 gallon tank. In Ca the elec. rates are very high, tier system.

Mag 9 might do ok. I'd go with at least a Mag 12 or better though. Fluval SP4 would probably be a great pump for that skimmer too. Max draw 88 watts vs. 110watts of the mag12 . Lots of DC pumps out there now to at lower wattage but if you get a strong DC pump it could pull more watts then the AC pump. As under load watts drawn is considerably less then max watts advertised so hard to know what you'll end up getting. I showed my waveline pulling near max watts around 150 watts as it handles a lot higher head pressure vs my mag 1800 pulling less then half that which it also has about the same max watts.

Basically, I wouldn't get caught up in watts used unless you live in California then you are so screwed no matter what with a fish tank between water and electricity.... :uhoh3:

but looks like you may already know that. looking at your location. lol

Just received my 30" with quick change head! I hooked it up yesterday and its bubbling away. I hope it doesn't take too long to break in. Since I have a low bio load at the moment, I don't expect the volume that Jason2459 is getting. So i created a plug for the drain. Well, that didn't work out, since the drain is the only place for the air to escape, it took me a minute to realize why the skimmer could be full of air while half submersed! I'm reluctant to drill a hole in my new shiny toy, so once it starts producing I'll see how the drain to a container thing works out. (knowing me, I'll forget to empty the container)

Nice, any pictures? Having a skimmate bucket is really nice to have. I guess I never thought about what happens when you don't have one as the lid is sealed.

It would be hard to drill a hole in the way the lid has no inner flange. The foam spreads out over the entire lid. If you drill a hole up there the foam would most likely seep out. Most skimmer lids have an inner ring and the holes on the outside of it. Foam is then directed straight down which puts pressure on the foam head. Which I think not having the ring is better for production.