Im sorry to hear this. Its rough when you try to do everything you can and still nothing is working, but dont give up! You have worked to hard and too long already to let a little bump in the road stop you. You will get through it. Im north jersey so a little far but if you need help just shout
My 280g Custom upgrade.....
- Thread starter SPotter
- Start date
Steve please stick in there we've all wanted to give up. Multiple times here and I'm now on the verge of another upgrade. I'm not sure if this'll help but I've lost an entire tank of fish before due to a GFCI tripping overnight while I was out of town, the corals did okay that time but my wife was so upset and that outage then triggered months long battle with awful hair algae (the in tank deep sand bed over a plenum I had crashed (that's now in a separate tank)).
It happened again a few years later in another home and lost less fish but more corals and I didn't have anyone to help, we were in FL that time, I got it turned back on and basically had to wait till I got home.
I've had algae blooms that I couldn't control for months, red flat worms, asterina stars that eat zoanthids and so many other things that I don't even remember right now and some of which I'm dealing with right now.
I've had tanks since I was 6 (33 years now) and salt water for 19 years, the one thing I do know is that I keep coming back, no mater how frustrating it can get we've all been there and this is just a passion for us.
Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. Maybe look at the corals that are doing okay and see if there are any commonalities between those corals or their husbandry requirements, let us know which ones are doing okay and maybe we can give you some ideas.
It happened again a few years later in another home and lost less fish but more corals and I didn't have anyone to help, we were in FL that time, I got it turned back on and basically had to wait till I got home.
I've had algae blooms that I couldn't control for months, red flat worms, asterina stars that eat zoanthids and so many other things that I don't even remember right now and some of which I'm dealing with right now.
I've had tanks since I was 6 (33 years now) and salt water for 19 years, the one thing I do know is that I keep coming back, no mater how frustrating it can get we've all been there and this is just a passion for us.
Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. Maybe look at the corals that are doing okay and see if there are any commonalities between those corals or their husbandry requirements, let us know which ones are doing okay and maybe we can give you some ideas.
acesq
Premium Member
Steve:
I'm going through the same thing with my SPS (thankfully all of my LPS are still fine). My parameters are perfect and I have not made any changes to the tank. About three weeks ago it started and has slowly infected about 60% of my SPS. I checked everything, used chemi pure, did a large water change, even took my bio-pellets off line. I dipped some of the affected colonies to see if it was caused by flatworm, but nothing came off the corals. I can only conclude that there is a bacterial infection. I have fragged the sick corals and superglued the area between the infected portion and the healthy tissue, but this hasn't done much but slow the RTN down a bit. I think I am going to have to ride this out. I'll be watching your thread to see if the UV sterilizer works.
Art
I'm going through the same thing with my SPS (thankfully all of my LPS are still fine). My parameters are perfect and I have not made any changes to the tank. About three weeks ago it started and has slowly infected about 60% of my SPS. I checked everything, used chemi pure, did a large water change, even took my bio-pellets off line. I dipped some of the affected colonies to see if it was caused by flatworm, but nothing came off the corals. I can only conclude that there is a bacterial infection. I have fragged the sick corals and superglued the area between the infected portion and the healthy tissue, but this hasn't done much but slow the RTN down a bit. I think I am going to have to ride this out. I'll be watching your thread to see if the UV sterilizer works.
Art
JohnnyB in SD
New member
I like to think I understand what you are going through. The worst situations seem to be the ones you can't determine the cause so that you can fix the problem.
I had an unexplained decline a couple years ago. Wiped out almost all inverts - sps, clams, stars, most lps, entire cuc etc. Fish were "acting funny" / not looking good. Water quality was better than ever, spent a lot of effort trying to figure out what was going on.
I woke up at 3am one night hearing unusual noises in the living room. Looked at the sump and was like July 4 fireworks. Faulty heater was leaking current, we're talking bare wires in salt water by the time I discovered it. Didn't trip the GFI, lucky house didn't burn down.
I should have been happy that I finally figured out the cause. Instead, for 4 months I was so depressed I couldn't touch the tank. Didn't do anything but dump food in it just to keep the fish alive. I watched the algae take over. I considered the upsides of tossing in the towel - wife would be pacified, I'd have extra time, money, space.
Finally made the decision that I couldn't quite. I was going to get serious. We're talking ignoring the wife's complaining about how much time I spent on the tank, instead of trying to be discreet by working on it when she wasn't around. Not worrying about how much something set me back if it was needed to "do it right", instead of delaying needed equipment acquisitions or trying to mickey mouse it. I started by purchasing the best replacement heaters I could find, not the cheapest.
I've still had a couple bumps in the road, as we all do. But that's all I see them as - something to work past and keep moving forward. Taking ALL your fish out and putting them in a temporary tub on the fireplace hearth, while you let your main tank go fallow for 8 weeks to kill off an unidentified parasite, is no fun. It gets uglier when you loose half the fish, many favorites you've had for years. But it was an opportunity to make some changes to the main tank without the fish in the way. I restocked with different specimens to replace some I really wish weren't taking up bioload.
I just spent 10 hours TODAY, dismantling and removing my entire sump to fix a slow leak. Lucky it was on tile flooring. I switched some equipment around and made some other adjustments while I had it all apart. I'm happy about the improvements, have forgotten the water puddle.
You have a very solid setup that looks great. You know it has potential to be TOTM some day.
But it is young. We all know, only bad things happen fast in a reef tank.
And even when you do everything possible, there will be some setbacks.
I had an unexplained decline a couple years ago. Wiped out almost all inverts - sps, clams, stars, most lps, entire cuc etc. Fish were "acting funny" / not looking good. Water quality was better than ever, spent a lot of effort trying to figure out what was going on.
I woke up at 3am one night hearing unusual noises in the living room. Looked at the sump and was like July 4 fireworks. Faulty heater was leaking current, we're talking bare wires in salt water by the time I discovered it. Didn't trip the GFI, lucky house didn't burn down.
I should have been happy that I finally figured out the cause. Instead, for 4 months I was so depressed I couldn't touch the tank. Didn't do anything but dump food in it just to keep the fish alive. I watched the algae take over. I considered the upsides of tossing in the towel - wife would be pacified, I'd have extra time, money, space.
Finally made the decision that I couldn't quite. I was going to get serious. We're talking ignoring the wife's complaining about how much time I spent on the tank, instead of trying to be discreet by working on it when she wasn't around. Not worrying about how much something set me back if it was needed to "do it right", instead of delaying needed equipment acquisitions or trying to mickey mouse it. I started by purchasing the best replacement heaters I could find, not the cheapest.
I've still had a couple bumps in the road, as we all do. But that's all I see them as - something to work past and keep moving forward. Taking ALL your fish out and putting them in a temporary tub on the fireplace hearth, while you let your main tank go fallow for 8 weeks to kill off an unidentified parasite, is no fun. It gets uglier when you loose half the fish, many favorites you've had for years. But it was an opportunity to make some changes to the main tank without the fish in the way. I restocked with different specimens to replace some I really wish weren't taking up bioload.
I just spent 10 hours TODAY, dismantling and removing my entire sump to fix a slow leak. Lucky it was on tile flooring. I switched some equipment around and made some other adjustments while I had it all apart. I'm happy about the improvements, have forgotten the water puddle.
You have a very solid setup that looks great. You know it has potential to be TOTM some day.
But it is young. We all know, only bad things happen fast in a reef tank.
And even when you do everything possible, there will be some setbacks.
coralreefdoc
New member
Well said, JohnnyB. Well said
Best of luck to you, as well as the OP, in the future
Best of luck to you, as well as the OP, in the future
SPotter
Active member
Thank you everyone for your support and confidence. I've been back in the hobby for 2 yrs now and this is my first real bump in the road....unfortunately its a big bump. There definitely seems to be something going around because I know a couple of other people in my area that are experiencing the same thing. It is hard to look at the tank every day but I still make sure that I am doing my best to try and provide the best environment for the live stock thats still in there and thriving.
Hey Steve crazy thought but arent most SPS infections vibrio? If so i know in humans (im in the medical field) we can treat vibrio with doxy. If so thats a tetracycline. Maybe you can try a tetracycline dip. Idk the effects on coral, but tetracycline is for a specific protein ribosomal subunit and a quick (may want to confirm) google search said zooanthelle do not have this subunit nor dose the base coral. It may work. Maybe test one piece and see how it does? Just trying to help
SPotter
Active member
I forgot you were in med school!!! I have been doing research all morning on vibrio shiloi which seems to be documented a lot as the bacterial infection experienced in tanks. I had read the erythromycin was another option but the amount needed to treat the entire tank would be a lot. I can definitely pick up some tetracycline and try it as a dip to see if that works. At this point I am willing to try anything.
I have also just read that bristle/fireworms have been tested and found that they carry this bacteria. If and when they begin to eat corals the bacteria is spread. I am cutting and pasting a portion of the article here....
Coral Killer Hitches a Ride in a Fireworm
For 20 years now, coral around the world has been turning ghostly white and dying, a condition known as bleaching. The coral loses the algae that live symbiotically inside and, consequently, its ability to photosynthesize. Scientists know that an obscure bacterium, Vibrio shiloi, is one cause. What they didn't know"”until now"”is how the bacterium spreads.
V. shiloi is particularly active in Mediterranean waters"”but only in summer when the water is warm. This year a team of microbiologists at Tel Aviv University discovered where the bacterium winters, which in turn led to an understanding of how it moves around. The culprit: a fireworm, a foot-long bristle worm that feeds on corals. "œWhen we looked for the bacteria in the fireworm, we hit the jackpot," says microbiologist Eugene Rosenberg.
The insides of a fireworm turn out to be a reasonably pleasant place for V. shiloi to camp out until external conditions turn favorable. The team introduced the germ-carrying worms into aquariums containing living corals. The pathogen caused total bleaching in just 17 days.
I do have a decent population of bristle worms and it is possible that some could be fire worms. I am not saying that this is the cause of my problem but just another possibility.
Ya seems to be the culprit. I dont really know what would happen if you nuked the whole tank. Also when we give it, Ca ions can prevent it from working so we tell pts not to take it with like milk and dairy. Dairy also makes your stomach more basic. That being said idk enough about tetracycline and fish to saw that the basic water and ca concentrations would affect it. Might be something to look into. If i run across it i will tel lyou
I think it would affect the bacteria in the biological filter so doing this in the main tank is likely going to start you over in terms of cycling and that die off could then result in a nitrate spike till it all balances out again. Not saying that you shouldn't do it, just understand what will then come next so that you are prepared.
Dustin1300
Reefaholic
Interesting ideas on the dip above.
As far as fireworms, they are rare but guess it's possible it came from them and an interesting snippet. Have you not had this live rock for a long time in existing system? Also, do you dip any new frags?
As far as fireworms, they are rare but guess it's possible it came from them and an interesting snippet. Have you not had this live rock for a long time in existing system? Also, do you dip any new frags?
SPotter
Active member
90% of the rock sat in a brute can anywhere from 1-2 months. a very small portion came from my old system. I only moved over the pieces I wanted to keep and sold off the rest. I do dip all new frags before putting them into the system. From what I've been reading....if it is a bacteriea infection that I am fighting, it sounds like this bacteria could be present for along time just waiting for the right moment to strike. When I think about the problems I've had over the last 6 weeks...ich, power failure, a couple of top off incidents causing my sg to drop (i brought it up slowly over several days) and heat issues before getting the portable ac hooked up right...its safe to say that I created the perfect storm for this to happen. Many of the articles I read stated that temps over 78 is when you start running the risk of an outbreak provided that the bacteria is present. I had several days of ranging from 79-81 before getting the under control. I never questioned why stability was so important before all of this happened because it was just a given. The last 6 weeks just reinforce that a stable tank is a happy and healthy tank.
Newbie Aquarist
Reefing is my middle name
Steve hang in there bruh. Just remember when you recover from this your experience will help other reefers in the process. You will come back and stronger than ever. We are family and we are here for you.
SPotter
Active member
Thanks Wayne. I am looking forward to going away next week and taking a break from the tank for 7 days. The frustrating part is not knowing whats really causing this and how to correct it. Adding corals will be very tricky and I will just have to add some cheap test corals after a waiting period.
M007
Acro Whore
I have seen and experienced this before. You can choose to ride it out or nuke your tank with numerous unproved bug fixes. I rode it out. It really drags you down into the dumps but like Phoenix your tank will rise again. I would look into fish or inverts that feed on worms and other parasitic creatures. Pipe fish are handy guys to have around and totally reef safe. Get those perams including basics like temp and SG Under control and things will tick up. It's going to take months but nothing good happens fast in this hobby so hunker down for the long haul. :beer:
SPotter
Active member
it definitely is a long haul thats for sure!!! The guy who installed my system stopped by tonight to look over everything and thinks it might have something to do with my ca reactor and how I have it set up. I have a few things to change with that and some additional cleaning to do on some other items. I will get to work on making the necessary changes and hopefully things will be back on the right track.
SPotter
Active member
His concern was that with the higher bubble count I had for the co2 and the slow drip rate into my sump is producing effluent with very high dkh. I drip right into the return section of my sump so its being broadcasted into the dt. he really had no other thoughts about what could be causing this other than possible fish nipping or just a serious of unfortunate events causing unstable water conditions. my alk in the dt is 9.9 and Im going to work on lowering that into the 8 range.
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nightOwl
Premium Member
Steve,
I am finally getting back to the real world. Hang in there buddy! Shot me a PM on the corals you have lost. Once you get your tank squared away I can ship you some back up that way. Consider it payment for the letting me borrow your expensive light meter till I almost thought it was mine...LOL. Hopefully you have identified the culprit and its just a matter of figuring out which dip or treatment will work best.
I am finally getting back to the real world. Hang in there buddy! Shot me a PM on the corals you have lost. Once you get your tank squared away I can ship you some back up that way. Consider it payment for the letting me borrow your expensive light meter till I almost thought it was mine...LOL. Hopefully you have identified the culprit and its just a matter of figuring out which dip or treatment will work best.
