My 400G Through-wall "deceptively deep" tank

dave.m said:
If you can't get you hands on the FlowWolf why not consider the original wavemaker that the FlowWolf was created to compete with, the OceansMotions device?

Dave.M
Click to expand...

I know of the OM, and to be honest it was what I was going to go with originally before I heard of the Flow-Wolf, but once I'd taken the decision to go with the gyres, it seems to make more sense to me; there's no holes in the tank any more (unless you count the returns) which has to be safer, and the gyres produce a *lot* of flow. One might be enough (in concert with the returns), two should certainly be enough.

I'm still keeping the dual-plumbed-in darts - that'll aid in cleaning and disaster recovery. I'll only be running one at a time, but it means replacing/cleaning can take place without interruption to the tank.

Cheers
Simon
 
AirForceAquariu said:
I am a huge fan of tanks designed like yours. Although I am far from my own dream tank build (I'm sure many people on this forum "have underwear older than me") I like to try and follow as many as I can to keep up with the ideas as well as refine my dream. Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks :)

When you say "tanks like mine", I don't suppose you have any links to threads with build-logs do you ? All I've seen before are pictures, and it'd be interesting to see if there are any potential slip-ups in my future :)

Cheers
Simon
 
Spaced Cowboy said:
Thanks :)

When you say "tanks like mine", I don't suppose you have any links to threads with build-logs do you ? All I've seen before are pictures, and it'd be interesting to see if there are any potential slip-ups in my future :)

Cheers
Simon
Click to expand...

Simon,

Unfortunately I don't. I have seen proposed designs like this a couple of times, but yours is the first real build thread for a tank like this. I really like the sleek look of the in wall tank, but also enjoy the idea of being able to have more than 1 viewing panel on the "show side". Personally I would worry about someone bumping the glass or scratching it. You might also look at this tank (I am sure you have seen it on here) which has an unusual shape. I warn you though, it did meet with tragedy. His was acrylic and suffered a seam failure. The end of the thread has some really great discussion about pressures tanks like this would face.

As an engineer I wonder if there would be any sort of additional forces on the "forward" section of the tank caused by suction. Might also worry about where you point your wavemakers if you were going to use them.
 
AirForceAquariu said:
Simon,

Unfortunately I don't. I have seen proposed designs like this a couple of times, but yours is the first real build thread for a tank like this. I really like the sleek look of the in wall tank, but also enjoy the idea of being able to have more than 1 viewing panel on the "show side". Personally I would worry about someone bumping the glass or scratching it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's occurred to me too. My plan is to put a dining table in front of the wall where the tank is. There'll still be space for someone to walk by the tank, but it'll be close enough that people ought to default to walking around it rather than past the tank. Subtle, but hopefully sufficient.

AirForceAquariu said:
You might also look at this tank (I am sure you have seen it on here) which has an unusual shape. I warn you though, it did meet with tragedy. His was acrylic and suffered a seam failure. The end of the thread has some really great discussion about pressures tanks like this would face.
Click to expand...
Did you mean to link that ?

AirForceAquariu said:
As an engineer I wonder if there would be any sort of additional forces on the "forward" section of the tank caused by suction. Might also worry about where you point your wavemakers if you were going to use them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm a physicist myself, though it's been a long time since I did any fluid mechanics - these days I'm an embedded software engineer :) The gyres will be placed to produce horizontal flow across the front, so any lateral suction will hopefully be minimized due to the lack of cross-section of interaction.

Hopefully Miracles got their numbers right :) I really don't fancy 400+ gallons of seawater on the floor...

Cheers
Simon
 
Any plans to account for the lower flower on the right side of the overflow? With the plumbing all on the left.
 
PJtree23 said:
Any plans to account for the lower flower on the right side of the overflow? With the plumbing all on the left.
Click to expand...

There are two things I can do. First, there are ball valves on the outputs to both left and right sides. By having one more open than the other, I can have coarse control over the relative flow to both sides. I ought to be able to make the sides roughly equal like that.

Then there's the fact that there will be more water flowing out of the ends of the spray-bar than in the middle. To counteract that, I have a 3d printer arriving (today, in fact) and a 3d model for the ball/socket click-together modular tubing. My plan is to make the outlets more restricted at the ends than they are in the middle.

I run a dart gold on my existing 240, and its dialed back to ~50% of its maximum flow output. I think there's plenty of capacity in the pump to get significant flow out of all the outlets on the spray bar.

Cheers
Simon
 
So, I mentioned a few posts back that I'd be getting a 3d-printer to engineer some of the more custom parts such as the jets on the spray-bar. Actually getting a hold of the printer was more trouble than I'd expected (You'd a thought FedEx would actually *deliver* things, being a delivery company, rather than not even try...)

Still, having gone to collect it, it's now sitting in my garage. Got to calibrate and get it all working this weekend, after moving some stuff around to make space... It's a lot larger than I'd mentally prepared for - the base is about 2.5' across and the whole thing weighs about 70 lbs.

3d-printer.jpg

It's gonna be a busy weekend...

Simon.
 
Spaced Cowboy said:
So, I mentioned a few posts back that I'd be getting a 3d-printer to engineer some of the more custom parts such as the jets on the spray-bar. Actually getting a hold of the printer was more trouble than I'd expected (You'd a thought FedEx would actually *deliver* things, being a delivery company, rather than not even try...)

Still, having gone to collect it, it's now sitting in my garage. Got to calibrate and get it all working this weekend, after moving some stuff around to make space... It's a lot larger than I'd mentally prepared for - the base is about 2.5' across and the whole thing weighs about 70 lbs.

3d-printer.jpg

It's gonna be a busy weekend...

Simon.
Click to expand...

Great build thread Simon :thumbsup:

I think your 3D printer deserves it's own thread once you start making custom parts. :bounce3:
 
I am planning on something like this, just not as elaborate. I like how you have the return pumps and the overhead spray bar. I am curious how you linked the two pumps to it. Are both of them linked to it? If so, how does that not create backpressure that they both have to overcome? Just trying to wrap my brain around the flow pattern here and how to plumb my new 300 next month (yes, I gotta do a quick build)
 
TheGrog said:
I am planning on something like this, just not as elaborate. I like how you have the return pumps and the overhead spray bar. I am curious how you linked the two pumps to it. Are both of them linked to it? If so, how does that not create backpressure that they both have to overcome? Just trying to wrap my brain around the flow pattern here and how to plumb my new 300 next month (yes, I gotta do a quick build)
Click to expand...

I'm not planning on using both pumps at the same time - they're both plumbed in so that I can easily clean one while keeping the other running, and of course if there's a pump failure, it's a quick fix to switch over to the other one.

If you look at post 18 you can just about see that there are ball valves both before and after the pump itself. That way I can easily isolate a pump without affecting the system.

If I did want to use both at the same time, I'd have to have a check-valve immediately after the pump and before they combine into one pipe. I don't like the reliability of check-valves. I wouldn't even consider doing this.

Cheers, and good luck with your own build :)

Simon
 
Spaced Cowboy said:
There are two things I can do. First, there are ball valves on the outputs to both left and right sides. By having one more open than the other, I can have coarse control over the relative flow to both sides. I ought to be able to make the sides roughly equal like that.

Then there's the fact that there will be more water flowing out of the ends of the spray-bar than in the middle. To counteract that, I have a 3d printer arriving (today, in fact) and a 3d model for the ball/socket click-together modular tubing. My plan is to make the outlets more restricted at the ends than they are in the middle.

I run a dart gold on my existing 240, and its dialed back to ~50% of its maximum flow output. I think there's plenty of capacity in the pump to get significant flow out of all the outlets on the spray bar.

Cheers
Simon
Click to expand...

I am not sure I can see the spray bar in the 7" overflow shelf. The spray bars I do see, would agitate the water on the surface of the right side of the overflow shelf, but not necessarily the 7" depth over the barrier.

Anyway, the overflow shelf containing your intakes ( full siphon/emergency/partial siphon ) will still have 100% of the flow on the left side of the shelf. On the right side of this same shelf there is nothing to stir up detritus at the bottom of the 7" depth of the overflow shelf.

What about putting a pump return there?
 
PJtree23 said:
I am not sure I can see the spray bar in the 7" overflow shelf. The spray bars I do see, would agitate the water on the surface of the right side of the overflow shelf, but not necessarily the 7" depth over the barrier.

Anyway, the overflow shelf containing your intakes ( full siphon/emergency/partial siphon ) will still have 100% of the flow on the left side of the shelf. On the right side of this same shelf there is nothing to stir up detritus at the bottom of the 7" depth of the overflow shelf.

What about putting a pump return there?
Click to expand...

My apologies, I completely misread your (very clear, on re-reading) question. This is something I've thought about, but it's not made it onto any of the diagrams yet.

The thing is that with the BeanAnimal overflow, there's only really one drain working full-time, and that's the full siphon. The dry emergency drain is (of course) dry in normal use, and the last one is supposed to be set to have just a trickle of water going down it. It also seems that the people who've has issues with the BeanAnimal system are the ones who've modified it slightly, either with horizontal runs of pipe or some other geometry change. I don't want to do that.

Couple that with the layout of my sump, and I really want all those drains at the one end of the overflow raceway. So my plan is to take a 1/4" feed off the return and use air-line piping to feed a plastic insert (made on the 3d printer) that sits at the "quiet" end of the overflow, and produce a jet of water penductor-style into the overflow. That ought to create enough flow at that end to prevent too much detritus building up.

3d printers are great ;)

Cheers,
Simon
 
Got an email from Miracles (and spoke to Derek on the phone) - we're in production!

I also decided (at Derek's suggestion) to go for Starfire glass on the rear - an uncommon option, but with the back being tempered, the depth of the water, and the glass being 3/4" thick, the extra clarity will be worth it, given that we'll be looking through that rear glass at TV images of "the deep" generated on a Mac Mini.

Cheers
Simon.
 
.. and a minor milestone. I've got the 3D printer semi-calibrated, good enough for a test-print anyway...

1-inch-cube.jpg

Not too impressive to look at, but it's the first-ever print, and that's not bad quality for a first print :) It's a 1" cube, and measuring against a ruler, it is indeed exactly 1" on a side :)

Onwards and upwards :)

Simon
 
Soliciting input :)

Has anyone actually used one of these lift platforms (http://www.castersupply.com/ehltlift.htm), specifically I'm thinking of the EHLT-2472-2000-43.

The idea is to use my limited space behind the tank (28" x 127") to have a platform whereby I can stand on it, raise myself up so my waist is roughly where the top of the tank is, and then lean over and brace myself with one hand against the wall above the tank, using the other hand to do stuff in the tank.

I could always use a step-stool / short ladders, and I'm wondering if I'm over-complicating things, even if it would be way more convenient. I'm also a little wary of the salt atmosphere gumming up the works. It is supposed to be an industrial device though so I'd expect it to be relatively robust. Also there's the cost...


Oh yeah, went to the city this morning and got the permit for the foundation strengthening and punching a hole in the exterior wall (earthquake resilience, load-bearing stuff etc.)... Things are starting to accelerate :)

Cheers
Simon
 
Last edited:
So I put a bit more thought into it, and I realised that what I'm really concerned about is it breaking down and then me being stuck with it.

So, I did a bit more research, and I found one made from 80/20 and linear actuators. If I DIY it, I'll always be able to fix it :) So that's the route I'll go. Bonus, I'll be able to build it so that it fits well :) Bonus 2: it's about 1/2 the price.

A scaffolding is sort of where I started, but I don't want to be taking it up and down in the (very) limited space behind the tank. I thought about a work platform, but they don't tend to go high enough. A (tall, 3-step) step-stool would do, but it wouldn't let me walk from one end to the other.

So, DIY it is :)

Simon
 
Simon, I was thinking of scaffolding without the wheels and make it a perm structure. Or you have to design a platform with steps, I would think.

I'm looking forward to seeing your tank come together.
 
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