My Bacteria Driven Journey

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15531995#post15531995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ryandlf
Great looking parameters

Thanks.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15532012#post15532012 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Padrino
Oh TJ,
will you be using some type of accurate dosing equipment or will you be manually dosing everything? I have been looking at the GHL standalone dosing computers and the Spectrapure Litermeter 3. Both good units from what i read.

Rob

Not at this time. I'll probably be dosing such small amounts that a dosing pump wouldn't even be able to accurately dose it. However, since I have REALLY dialed back my Ca Reactor, I am contemplating switching to a dosing pump system which could deliver Ca, Alk and Mag.

 

[Dejavu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15531194#post15531194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty
Thank you. At this time I do not plan on using the ZEOStones. Is there an added benefit to running them along with the MB7/Vodka?

Honestly, I really haven't looked into Prodibio that much. However, it looks as if it has to be dosed all at once, while the MB7 can be dosed daily. It may be something I take a look at down the road, but not at this time.

Prodibio is dose bi-weekly. Bactria one week and food the next. I lkie the fact that you don't have to dose every week but MB7 cost less and there might be add benefit to dose every day. I'll be watch your thread closly... interested in the turn out.

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15533063#post15533063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dejavu
Prodibio is dose bi-weekly. Bactria one week and food the next. I lkie the fact that you don't have to dose every week but MB7 cost less and there might be add benefit to dose every day. I'll be watch your thread closly... interested in the turn out.

I have used Prodbio in the past and the glass ampules were a deal breaker for me. I did not like the fact that I had to shock my system with a single large dose.

Since switching over to MB7/Vodka I no longer get drops in Ph, excess bacterial growth, and my system is doing better. The daily dosing has really made a difference.

Plus, MB7/vodka is cheaper and much easier to find.

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15523848#post15523848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ksed
Tswifty

If your test kit is reading 0 nitrates , how do you know what to go by when dosing Vodka.
Don't you need a reading first then if the reading goes down then you are in the right track?

Thanks

Hello,

Your nitrates will fall before your PO4 does. About a month out the PO4 should rapidly drop. When BOTH NO3 and PO4 are reading 0, slash your vodka dosage in half. Monitor you levels, and when the nutrients start to show up again repeat the process of increasing the vodka dosage.

Basically, keep increasing the amount of vodka until you reach 0 nutrient levels. Once you hit 0 cut the dose in half. Repeat the entire process over once nutrients begin to rise again.

You will need to increase your feedings or add AA's once you have reached 0 nutrient levels.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15533063#post15533063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dejavu
Prodibio is dose bi-weekly. Bactria one week and food the next. I lkie the fact that you don't have to dose every week but MB7 cost less and there might be add benefit to dose every day. I'll be watch your thread closly... interested in the turn out.

Thanks for the info, and glad to hear you'll be tagging along.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15533739#post15533739 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
Hello,

Your nitrates will fall before your PO4 does. About a month out the PO4 should rapidly drop. When BOTH NO3 and PO4 are reading 0, slash your vodka dosage in half. Monitor you levels, and when the nutrients start to show up again repeat the process of increasing the vodka dosage.

Basically, keep increasing the amount of vodka until you reach 0 nutrient levels. Once you hit 0 cut the dose in half. Repeat the entire process over once nutrients begin to rise again.

You will need to increase your feedings or add AA's once you have reached 0 nutrient levels.

Thank you for the explanation Sonny. That's what I gathered from my reading, but wanted to make sure before I started up.

 

[Tswifty]

I had a quick question regarding the use of the ZEOvit stones (since it was brought up earlier).

Is this something that would be beneficial to run in combination with the bacteria/vodka/aminos? From what I've read, it seems the stones lock up ammonia before it is able to be converted into nitrite and nitrate, and also colonize bacteria which is then supplied to the tank as food for the corals. It seems like a good idea on paper, but I was wondering if anyone had experience with them... and if it was positive or negative? I could probably DIY a reactor fairly easily, but want to try and gather a little more information first.

 

[tastingSalty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15537595#post15537595 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty
I had a quick question regarding the use of the ZEOvit stones (since it was brought up earlier).

Is this something that would be beneficial to run in combination with the bacteria/vodka/aminos? From what I've read, it seems the stones lock up ammonia before it is able to be converted into nitrite and nitrate, and also colonize bacteria which is then supplied to the tank as food for the corals. It seems like a good idea on paper, but I was wondering if anyone had experience with them... and if it was positive or negative? I could probably DIY a reactor fairly easily, but want to try and gather a little more information first.

I've been considering running these stones as well. I think they are just another way to help lower nutrient levels. My thinking was that they were kinda like an ULNS-specific type of nitrate remover and GFO...

I think they would be fine to use in other types ULNSs. (The Neo-Zeo stones probably do the same thing and are cheaper). If you can DIY up a simple reactor, it's probably worth trying as the stones themselves are quite cheap...JMO

Keep us posted if you decide to go ahead with the stones.

 

[trueblackpercula]

As for the Zeo stones what are you trying to accomplish by using them? If carbon dosing already gives a zero reading on nitrate and PO4 what would the added benifit be? Not trying to knock it down in any way just want to understand the logic and maybe implament it into my system If there is a need for them. From what I remeber all they do is give a place for good bacteria to settle on and grow. But if you have a sand bed or live rocks Etc then how do the work for a carbon based system? Also if the rocks in there little reactor/chamber are not shaken up or disturbed every day detritius will build up inside of it and cuase more harm then good ...... What is everyone else thoughts on this?
Man I am really getting into this type of system and lovin it.
Michael Anthony

 

[stony_corals]

The purpose of the ZEOvit or NEO-Zeo stones and a reactor is that its a perfect place to cultivate bacteria cultures, rather than using your whole system as a 'reactor'. I see a lot of people claiming that NeoZeo is cheaper than running ZEOvit, having used them both, I see no merits to the claim, especially if you use *all* the supplements that is recommended with Neo-Zeo, and the amounts that are dosed are much more.... I do not like the black particulates that result from using NeoZeo.

The mulm released from the stones is not detritus, its the bacterial biomass that is then either filtered out via skimming, or the corals eat it.

I have spoken to users that find PO4 going down before NO3 does. The majority of systems that I have set up, I have found this to be the case.... not sure why.... You only want to add aminos when your NO3 is undetectable, they add a lot more N than P.

Part of the challenge with regard to pH dropping effect of different carbon sources is that the amount of carbon is likely vary different between these specific sources. BUT if you are adding the same amount of organic carbon in a given system the pH will drop by the same amount regardless if you are dosing .5ml of ZEOstart2, or 2ml of vodka, or 5ml of the BW product (this is just an example). Each product is different, and each system is different, recommended starting doses need to be experimented with!

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15537878#post15537878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tastingSalty
I've been considering running these stones as well. I think they are just another way to help lower nutrient levels. My thinking was that they were kinda like an ULNS-specific type of nitrate remover and GFO...

I think they would be fine to use in other types ULNSs. (The Neo-Zeo stones probably do the same thing and are cheaper). If you can DIY up a simple reactor, it's probably worth trying as the stones themselves are quite cheap...JMO

Keep us posted if you decide to go ahead with the stones.

I'm probably going to go ahead and build a reactor regardless, but wait to decide on implementing it or not until a little further down the road.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15537935#post15537935 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
As for the Zeo stones what are you trying to accomplish by using them? If carbon dosing already gives a zero reading on nitrate and PO4 what would the added benifit be?

I'm primarily interested in it as an additional food source for the corals. From the guide I read, it seemed as if the mulm is bacteria which is taken up as food by corals. The reactor is ran on a cycle of 3hrs on, 3hrs off... so I sort of looked at it as a constant food source for the corals throughout the day.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15540453#post15540453 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stony_corals
The purpose of the ZEOvit or NEO-Zeo stones and a reactor is that its a perfect place to cultivate bacteria cultures, rather than using your whole system as a 'reactor'. I see a lot of people claiming that NeoZeo is cheaper than running ZEOvit, having used them both, I see no merits to the claim, especially if you use *all* the supplements that is recommended with Neo-Zeo, and the amounts that are dosed are much more.... I do not like the black particulates that result from using NeoZeo.

The mulm released from the stones is not detritus, its the bacterial biomass that is then either filtered out via skimming, or the corals eat it.

Thank you very much for the information. I think I sort of had the right idea then. (maybe?) So in your opinion, do you think there would be any benefit to running the reactor and stones on my system, if I do not plan on running the gauntlet of ZEO additives? At this point, I only plan on dosing MB7, Lugol's, Vodka, and Amino's.

 

[Tswifty]

First dose of Microbacter 7 and Lugol's Solution went into the tank today. 10 ml of MB7 mixed in 250ml of tank water was added the display tank above the VorTech, then I did the same thing with the 1 drop of Lugol's. Skimmer was left on.

I also tested the alkalinity again last night, and it seems to holding at 8.6 dKH.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Good luck on your quest for Brighter healthier Sps,Keep us all posted and take lots pf pictures
Michael Anthony

 

[Aqua Keepers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15544965#post15544965 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty
First dose of Microbacter 7 and Lugol's Solution went into the tank today. 10 ml of MB7 mixed in 250ml of tank water was added the display tank above the VorTech, then I did the same thing with the 1 drop of Lugol's. Skimmer was left on.

I also tested the alkalinity again last night, and it seems to holding at 8.6 dKH.

Any immediate reactions like polyp extension?

 

[aquariumclown]

If I remember correctly from when I started to dose, I did not get any good polyp extensions until I dose AA for more than a week.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15545304#post15545304 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
Good luck on your quest for Brighter healthier Sps,Keep us all posted and take lots pf pictures
Michael Anthony

Thanks. I plan on taking update shots every 2 weeks.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15546035#post15546035 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aqua Keepers
Any immediate reactions like polyp extension?

I didn't notice anything in particular.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15546060#post15546060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquariumclown
If I remember correctly from when I started to dose, I did not get any good polyp extensions until I dose AA for more than a week.

I'm debating about when to start AA's. Currently I have 0 Nitrates, and my colors are light IMO. However, I would like to introduce changes 1 at a time. That way it may be easier to attribute any reactions I witness to a specific item. So I'll probably hold off for at least two weeks, maybe four.

On a side note, a member of the local reef club is bringing his Hanna Photometer by tomorrow. So hopefully I'll have an accurate PO4 reading to report.

 

[aquariumclown]

because you are battling GHA. I would say hold off on the AA till you can get that under control. For me, I didn't have any major algae problems like that, so I dosed AA as soon as I realized I was suppose to. To clarify, this is actually my path...

- Dosed 80 proof vodka per instructions, ramping up from .6ml to 16ml in about 6 weeks, saw bacterial bloom in the sump only.
- Changed from straight alcohol to VSV for the next 4 weeks, didn't see any major improvements.
- Started dosing AA in conjunction to VSV. Saw polyp extension improvements in less than 2 weeks.
- Started dosing MB7, weaned off vodka over the next 4 weeks. Bacterial bloom reduced significantly.
- Over this period the NO3 and PO3 were up and down. I controlled the spikes with AZ-NO3 and Phosphate-E.
- NO3 and PO3 stable and are at acceptable levels. Continued coral health, growth, and color throughout the process.

I didn't follow everything as I should have, but it's the road I took. This ended me with a stable system and colors are still improving everyday. Hope this gives others an example of what might happen.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Wow that's sounded like a lot of work. Can you tell us why you stopes dosing vodka and started using other additives in stead that do the same thing? It's nice to k ow that we have other options just in case the liquor store is closed
Michael Anthony

 

[aquariumclown]

Well my goal was to lower my NO3 and PO4. Both values were coming down but very slowly. I thought maybe it was because it wasn't working for me since my dosage got up to 16ml a day, so I decided to mix VSV and eventually try MB7 at the same time. I'm in favor of MB7 now because it's keeping my NO3 and PO4 down without the bacterial bloom I had in the sump. What a mess that stuff was, clogged all the pumps and hoses. And besides, as of now MB7 alone is keeping my NO3 and PO4 down, so I'm gonna keep doing what i'm doing.

 

[stony_corals]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15541485#post15541485 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty
I'm probably going to go ahead and build a reactor regardless, but wait to decide on implementing it or not until a little further down the road.

I'm primarily interested in it as an additional food source for the corals. From the guide I read, it seemed as if the mulm is bacteria which is taken up as food by corals. The reactor is ran on a cycle of 3hrs on, 3hrs off... so I sort of looked at it as a constant food source for the corals throughout the day.

Thank you very much for the information. I think I sort of had the right idea then. (maybe?) So in your opinion, do you think there would be any benefit to running the reactor and stones on my system, if I do not plan on running the gauntlet of ZEO additives? At this point, I only plan on dosing MB7, Lugol's, Vodka, and Amino's.

I've done both, they both work . Hold off on the aminos until you are measuring low levels of N. The thing is keep a log, measure often, give it time. I think ZEO/NEO systems require more experimenting to get the dosing locked in. For the systems that I've run vodka (and bacteria dosing), about 4-6 weeks and I'm to ULN....

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15547409#post15547409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stony_corals
I've done both, they both work . Hold off on the aminos until you are measuring low levels of N. The thing is keep a log, measure often, give it time. I think ZEO/NEO systems require more experimenting to get the dosing locked in. For the systems that I've run vodka (and bacteria dosing), about 4-6 weeks and I'm to ULN....

Thanks. In most of my reading/research/pestering... etc... It seems like there isn't much set in stone, and the key is knowing your system well enough so you can identify and address warning signs before they become problematic.