my diy needle wheel dart pump
- Thread starter spazz
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Hey Snarkys... How long have you been on the Reef scene in minneapolis??? Do you post over on TRT in the TCMAS forum?
FYI- I got to see Scott's test NW Sequence in action last night... OMG!!!!! That thing was INSANE!!!! The bubbless on the bottom half looked like smoke, it was so fine. The CFH was at 160+!!!! And after tweaking it a little it appears there is room for even a little more air to be injected. One thing I realized is look at the first picture of the first test impeller and then look at the latest... Open them side by side viewing it with two different browsing windows and just see the huge improvement... and he is working on some other changes or mods to improve it even more. The wattage draw with 160+ CFH was like 175watts + or -!!!! That is ridiculously efficient for that much air in a skimmer. I can't wait to see what the sequence NW will do in comparrison
It is gonna be a show down ladies and gents 
FYI- I got to see Scott's test NW Sequence in action last night... OMG!!!!! That thing was INSANE!!!! The bubbless on the bottom half looked like smoke, it was so fine. The CFH was at 160+!!!! And after tweaking it a little it appears there is room for even a little more air to be injected. One thing I realized is look at the first picture of the first test impeller and then look at the latest... Open them side by side viewing it with two different browsing windows and just see the huge improvement... and he is working on some other changes or mods to improve it even more. The wattage draw with 160+ CFH was like 175watts + or -!!!! That is ridiculously efficient for that much air in a skimmer. I can't wait to see what the sequence NW will do in comparrison
It is gonna be a show down ladies and gents HEY SEQUENCE!!!!! SEND SPAZZ A TEST PUMP/IMPELLAR!!!! This guy is so passionate with this stuff he is always looking for ways to make this stuff better!!! He can be a powerful ally to your design tema His ideas ALWAYS produce some sort of positive result... because if they don't.... he won't sleep until they do...
This guy thinks so far out of the box you would think he is off his rocker but then he shows his results and you stand in udder disbelief that he made it work the way he said it would.
His ideas ALWAYS produce some sort of positive result... because if they don't.... he won't sleep until they do... This guy thinks so far out of the box you would think he is off his rocker but then he shows his results and you stand in udder disbelief that he made it work the way he said it would.
Herbert T. Kornfeld
In Memoriam
Hey Spazz,
just got back from Atlanta for the holiday...saw you said you had a problem with aiming the bubbles downward or something because the bubbles were combining? Sounds like a similar problem that many becketts have...you might consider using a smaller diameter pipe...increases velocity and seems to prevent bubbles from combining. Then again, if you end up with a blower on the air intake anyways, you might as well just put the pump as low as you want and just let it straight discharge...the back-pressure on the air intake wont be an issue.
Looks great though man...Im stoked.
just got back from Atlanta for the holiday...saw you said you had a problem with aiming the bubbles downward or something because the bubbles were combining? Sounds like a similar problem that many becketts have...you might consider using a smaller diameter pipe...increases velocity and seems to prevent bubbles from combining. Then again, if you end up with a blower on the air intake anyways, you might as well just put the pump as low as you want and just let it straight discharge...the back-pressure on the air intake wont be an issue.
Looks great though man...Im stoked.
spazz
New member
ya i have been thinking on that one alot. if i reduce the pipe on the outlet the air/water ratio gets out of wack. its not high enough yet and i dont want it any lower. i need to increase the output fittings in size to help decrease the flow restriction of the mix. im going to lower the pump down in the body of the tank and add 2" unoin over the votive of the pump to reduce restriction of the out comming water. then polish out the threads on the votive to a bigger diamiter. tat will increase velocity and improve the overall performance of the pump. kind of like porting and flowing a set of heads on a car.
right now im getting a 10/90%air water ratio to the test tank. i need to increase that to 13% in order to get maximum air to water ratio. that should lower the wattage and increase the air intake of the pump. the numbers are so close to max that its down to little things that increase .5% here and 1% there. to get that last 3% out of it. but it all takes time. and thats one thing i dont have alot of. lol time will tell if i can get this one and the next one to match up in numbers. i have 2 darts to work with. i just have to order some new seals for the other one. then i migh have to hook both of them up and see what happens. :eek1:
I would love to see a video of that beast in action!
If you still didn't find anyone to help you out with that part, try here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=627973
I'm sure they will help you out.
What you do is really awesome!!
Honey
You mean the air / water mix would be much more dense in bubbles and you would need a taller skimmer body than the present 5 feet, or how?
So by placing the pump close to the bottom, with no outlet pipe pointing downwards, and at the same time having a higher skimmer body would be the best combination?
By removing the outlet pipe pointing down into the skimmer you would be preventing bubbles colliding into each other forming bigger bubbles, but wouldn't that also reduce the downdraft effect? from the water pushing the bubbles down that are trying to rise? I mean having the pump close to the bottom would shorten / eliminate that downdraft path...?
Honey
spazz
New member
the bubbles circulate around in the tank. they rise to the top on one side then get pulled back down with the water current on the other side. the side thats opposite of the pump is the side where the bubbles rise up. and the side that the pump is on , is where the bubbles get pulled back down. the bubble density is so thick in there that you cant see your fingers when there 1" away fron the side of the tank. i want to keep that density but get the bubbles lower to the bottom of the tank.
i have also noticed that the higher the head presure is the harder it is to cavate the pump when force injecting air to it. so by lowering it down it the test tank i might be able to get my 13% air water ratio im shooting for. that tank is 48 gallons. and when im injecting maximum air to it there is 5.25 gallons of fine air bubbles in the tank.
spazz
New member
but there is one other thing i have noticed too. the bubbles in the bottom of the tank are super fine bubbles. then as they rise up and decompress they get a little bit bigger. but there still as small as a pin head at the top of the tank. in the bottom of the tank there half that size. or smaller. so the head presure works in two ways. it gives you better performance when force injecting the pump, but the bubbles get compressed at the bottom and as they rise up they get bigger. but its still the best bubble density i have ever seen in a body that size. even beckett skimmers dont have that fine of bubbles, or that density of bubbles. i think the bubble king skimmers are the only ones that come close to the density and size of bubbles. i cant even get a close up picture of how small the bubbles are. im going to try and tape a pin head to the side of the tank and then get a macro shot of the bubbles to show there size. but dont know if that will work or not.
tinygiants
New member
Spazz,
The goal is 13% saturation of the water in the column. It does not have to be done all at once. It all depends on how long the bubble stays around. If you can figure out the bubble dwell time, you can model how much air it takes to maintain the 13%.
Good Luck,
Dale
Whaledriver
New member
Consider a Bubble King type dispersal plate. It will spread the foam over a wider, low area and allow the return water to come down the sides of the tube. This should help with the turbulance and increase the area with foam.
spazz
New member
well i know alot of people are wondering about bubble size. i might say they are small but to you they might be huge. so to show size comparison i taped a standard sewing pin to the side of the tank and took some pics. there not that great because the bubbles are moving around and its hard to get a good pic of something that size thats moving. but heres the 2 best shots i could get. you be the judge on bubble size. let me know what you think.
DAM you are a sick man
awesome work!!!!
Anyways, how will adding water from a drain/overflow on a aquarium or even hooking up your 2nd dart to push water into the skimmer affect the bubbles? Due to the added turbulance wouldn't that help keep the bubbles tiny as well as push the bubbles lower into the body?
Honey...that's the name of my soon to be X wife
awesome work!!!!
Anyways, how will adding water from a drain/overflow on a aquarium or even hooking up your 2nd dart to push water into the skimmer affect the bubbles? Due to the added turbulance wouldn't that help keep the bubbles tiny as well as push the bubbles lower into the body?
Honey...that's the name of my soon to be X wife
tinygiants
New member
Here is the math for this calculation.
Figure out skimmer volume in cubic feet. Multiply volume by .13 to get the 13% air volume goal.
Figure out the bubble dwell time in minutes.
Divide 13% air volume by the bubble dwell time. This is the amount of air required to keep the body of water saturated at 13% air.
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