my diy needle wheel dart pump

Status
Not open for further replies.
well i blew up the first version of the dart needle wheel. it was not giving me the results i wanted. i did find some plastic scraps from drilling in the impellor which would have dropped the preformance of the impellor a littl. but not that much. so i am working on design # 2. this one is 100% from scratch.
 
well i finished up the new needle wheel and fired it up. all i can say is WOW! what a difference. this new design is the one. i fists hooked it up to see how much air it would draw on its own. i got 60 scfh at 4.5 feet of water in the test tank. not bad. very small bubbles. looked like milk. then i added water to the 5 ft mark. it went down hill from there. so out came the sweet water pump again. this time i couldnt cavate the pump with the sweet water running wide open. the bubbles were nice and small. it was like a tornado in there. that pump can handle 2.5 cubic feet a minute! thats 150 scfh! it peged my 100scfh meter and never even thought about cavating. so then i hooked up the big compressor. 100 psi pressure. i regulated it with a jg ball valve. i couldnt belive how much air you can force into that pump. and the bubbles still stay small.
now for the bad news. first is the wattages. with the bigger impellor and the sweetwater running wide open it runs 250 to 300 watts. depending on how much water you let int othe pump. but for the bubble size and amount of air it can handle its awesome! thats like 5 of the ocean runners combined. but a heck of alot more air. the pump was running a little hotter. i might have to cut down on some of the pins on it to reduce the heat the pump was having.
and now for the worst news of all. i was trying to reinstall the pipe on the end of the outlet to point down and broke the pump right off the tank. i dumped 40 gallons of salt water all over the shop. so now that i have a good design i dont have a tank to test with any more. i think im going to shorten up the test tank to 5 ft tall. and move the fittings up a little so i can reach them easer. its a pain in the rear to have to drain the tank every time i want to change inlet pipe.
in the end i think this design will test out to be a winner. its the shear amount of air it can handle and the size of the bubbles that amazes me. that thing can handle way more air than you would ever need in a skimmer. i know there are alot of people who dont like the though of force feeding a skimmer pump. but its the only way to get that kind of cfm's to the pump at that head pressure. ther is no venturie that will allow the pump to suck 150 scfh at 6 ft of head. i think you can get 100 scfh at 2 ft of head. we will have to see.
 
Awesome! Do you think some kind of modified venturi would work there? Possibly oversized with multiple air inlets as opposed to one?
 
Told you it wont cavitate...lol. Just an idea on the new test chamber...how about a little wider? I wonder what its bubble distribution might be like with something in the 300 square inch range.
 
Great!! If I may suggest, you may want to put a union valve at the intake and outlet buklhead for the test vessel. It wil allow you to close it leaving the water in the tank and take down the pump.

This is pretty cool stuff. Now the big question is: where do we go from here to get one?? Are you going to post some pictures of it? Are you going to wait for Sequence to come out with their design before you "release" yours? Are you planning to sell these impellers modified or is this a DIY project for the masses?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6339270#post6339270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgasmd
By the way, what sweetwater pump were you using again? Do you have a link to it?

Alberto, are you trying to get rid of your airstones.... this NW dart is cool. you could probably put two of them on your monster skimmer...:cool:
 
Alberto has the perfect test "tube" for this NW skimmer pump.

Maybe you can ship him the parts and he can be your test cell....and I can watch!
 
i think im going to cut this tank down and get rid of the area i broke out. then shorten up the plumbing on it. i also need to ger an air meter that will read high enough to mesure the airflow. as for air intakes, there is 2 of them in the intake pipe. they are 3/8 water line. as for releasing any info on the design goes. i would like to see what sequence comes up with first. maybe theres will be better. we dont know. i really had to destroy my pump housing to get this new design to fit the way i wanted it to. i wouldnt want everyone going out and carving up there pumps just to find out sequence has a better design. but im confident they will never think of this one. lol its really off the wall. im just bummed out that i cant post pics right now.
the other though here is than sequence is designing a pump for super huge skimmers. miy design would work for medium to large skimmers. i think this would be a great pump for 700g to 2000g systems. the wattages are low enough and bubbles are definatly small enough.
im off to my mom and dads this weekend and next week i will be on the road. so..... it will be a couple of weeks before i can ge the new modifications done to the test tank. then i might build a top for it and turn it into a real skimmer.
herbert, i dont think this pump would be big enough for a 300sq. in. body. ya it puts out alot of bubbles but there so densely packed in the top 4 ft of the test tank that you would need 2 of these to make a skimmer that size. the pump housing is just not big inough to handle that much air/water. but never fear the sequence needle wheel will be here, real soon. lol i think this pump is a contender to the bk pump. but higher wattage though.
if you convert the numbers that deltec clames they get out of there skimmers, this 1 pump is equivelant to 6 of the eheim needle wheels. but there wattage are higher than this is. but the key here is that i think this pump will handle 200 scfh. thats 6552 leters an hour and i know the wattage draw will go down by another 10 -20 watts. i just need an air pump to handle it now. lol
as for the air pump its a sl56 from this site.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/21789/cid/3894
this is an awesome pump. super quiet and tons of air. i was going to make an air driven skimmer using this pump, but the air stones dont make small enough bubbles. i was going to sell this pump but now i think im going to keep it for testing.
have a good christmas guys.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6340237#post6340237 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DC321
Alberto has the perfect test "tube" for this NW skimmer pump.

Maybe you can ship him the parts and he can be your test cell....and I can watch!
if you noticed energys post. i have a 1700g reef for a test bed. i think there is a total of 2200 to 2500 total gallons in his system. this is what i want to test this pump on. i think it would be awesome on his system.
 
But I can't see that one in operation in person....

I have followed a few of your threads. You are my favorite DIY'er.

I have a skimmer fetish.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6340378#post6340378 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DC321
But I can't see that one in operation in person....

I have followed a few of your threads. You are my favorite DIY'er.

I have a skimmer fetish.
thanks thats the highest complment i can get.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6340396#post6340396 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
thanks thats the highest complment i can get.

the big problem i have is making these needle wheels. they take hours to build and you have to releive the pump housing to get it to fit in there. its huge! down the road we will se how things go. mybe i can make another one for some one. but not right now. it took me 6 hrs to build this one by hand. if i had a lathe and a mill i could build one in 3 hrs.
 
Hey- Can't wait to see how it works on the test bed....Would you be willing to specify whether it looks ore like an ocean runner needlewheel or a Sedra needlewheel? When looking at the stock impeller assembly, it looks like either could work...Just curious as to which way you went on that one...
 
Try carbon fiber rods. You can get them in smaller diameter. Carbon fiber rods are very strong, light, and cheaper than titanium.

I'm extremely curious to see what the needle wheel for this look like.


D.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6344707#post6344707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
its based off the sedra's, but has a different design than the sedra's


well that's about clear as mud :lol:
 
i wonder if using thin titanium or plastic screws as the pegs would chop bubbles even smaller, with the threads acting as knives? or is there an absolute minimum size for bubbles?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top