My JBJ 28gal Nano Build Thread

[venom550pm]

Really sorry to hear about your losses. It is devastating to lose a colony you have grown out from a frag. Keep your head up.

I have been wracking my brain for the last ten minutes on what could be causing the problems. I keep coming back to flow for some reason. With the tank becoming packed and traveling leading to less maintenance, I wonder if the vortech starting getting dirty (they drop flow rapidly as algae and bacteria growth develops on the impeller) and the loss in flow was just too much for the corals. That would also help explain the cyano. It could also be a phosphate issue, or even more likely, the combination of the two. I would expect your phosphate tests to read zero because most of the phosphate is being used up by the algae outbreak.

How do the other parameters check out?

I agree with Jason. I have noticed too that the Vortech's drop flor rate when they get dirty, then this cycle can start.

 

[ange062]

Really sorry to hear about your losses. It is devastating to lose a colony you have grown out from a frag. Keep your head up.

I have been wracking my brain for the last ten minutes on what could be causing the problems. I keep coming back to flow for some reason. With the tank becoming packed and traveling leading to less maintenance, I wonder if the vortech starting getting dirty (they drop flow rapidly as algae and bacteria growth develops on the impeller) and the loss in flow was just too much for the corals. That would also help explain the cyano. It could also be a phosphate issue, or even more likely, the combination of the two. I would expect your phosphate tests to read zero because most of the phosphate is being used up by the algae outbreak.

How do the other parameters check out?

I've never had luck measuring PO4 for the very reason you have listed, it's being consumed by algae growth in the tank and stripped from the water column. I do keep the MP10 very clean, though at this point it has a solid coat of coralline on the entire wet side so that may be affecting performance. I had been thinking of adding a 2nd MP10 for some time, but still can't see this causing all of that die off...

Ca/Alk have been bouncing around a little bit as a tweak dosing for the decreases SPS stocking. All organics read 0, Sg is 1.026, 77deg, Alk 8, Ca 420, Mg 1500. None of the parms have moved significantly from where they have been for the past two years. I don't see this as being the issue.

I'm still leaning towards it being excess PO4 from overfeeding while I was out of town. But who knows?!? Thanks for the feedback

Great tank. I will be getting my jbj 28 in a few weeks and it will be my first reef tank. This thread was an inspiration.

Thanks for the comments. Feel free shoot any questions my way

Love the clams man, very cool

Thanks a ton, I love the clams too!

I agree with Jason. I have noticed too that the Vortech's drop flor rate when they get dirty, then this cycle can start.

Maybe I should just try a 2nd MP10 and see if it makes any difference!!

 

[JasonBJones]

How were the colonies dieing? If flow were part of the culprit, I would expect to see them dieing center out because the outer edges would receive more flow.

Did the corals look like they were bleaching? The amount of light a coral can handle is directly related to the amount of flow it receives. A coral can handle more intense light if it is receiving higher flow. If the light remains the same and is strong, which you should have with the radion, and flow reduces, could also cause problems.

I am certainly not convinced that flow is the sole culprit. I just dont think excessive PO4 usually causes coral death. It may cause poor coloration, but usually it has to be excessively high to cause coral death.

 

[ange062]

How were the colonies dieing? If flow were part of the culprit, I would expect to see them dieing center out because the outer edges would receive more flow.

Did the corals look like they were bleaching? The amount of light a coral can handle is directly related to the amount of flow it receives. A coral can handle more intense light if it is receiving higher flow. If the light remains the same and is strong, which you should have with the radion, and flow reduces, could also cause problems.

I am certainly not convinced that flow is the sole culprit. I just dont think excessive PO4 usually causes coral death. It may cause poor coloration, but usually it has to be excessively high to cause coral death.

They started at the tips and progressed to the base. Once the tip died, cyano and bubbles would form and this would progress through the colony. It didn't begin in the center, it was all tips, and the first colonies to die were those actually in the most direct flow of the MP10 (though they also happened to be the most sensitive and demanding of flow). I've also had cyano / bubble growth on the LR, though none on the sand.

The Radion settings haven't changed, but it's an interesting point regarding the relationship between flow and light intensity. At 70% it's definitely intense down to the sand bed. I wonder if adding that extra MP10 would have made the difference... Though, at the point the tank was stocked to I doubt I would have had room, lol!

It's definitely something to keep in mind as I get the tank going now. Hoping to get things back into shape through diligence and special attention, and once things are looking good again I'll start restocking to see what happens. Definitely looking at some different coral choices this time around!

 

[yukyuklee]

very nice looks like you are getting the most out of this AIO very jammed packed!

 

[StephLionfish]

I'm hoping for the best in that you figure out what the deal is. Our tanks have their ups and downs, just gotta pull through it. Your tank has been one of my favs!

 

[pleuralplexus]

there'salways the immeasurable element called the "idiot factor" which gets introduced into the tank when someone watches it for you. Its not measurable because someone who does something stupid may never know it, or may realize it and may still never tell you because they dont want to screw up a friendship.

I let the wife watch mine while I was on call not too long ago, and after only ONE DAY, I came home to find my MP10 knocked loose and not running. She didnt notice, and our clumsiest teenager evenually fessed up. It had an affect after just that one day, with loss of flesh on the leeward side of one of my acros, and tip burn on my favorite monti. That was during late summer and its only just now all healed over.

 

[martinphillip03]

Ange, Good luck luck with the tank. It will be interesting what direction you take. The good news for me is you will be posting more often. Have a happy new year.

Marty

 

[calistyle]

UPDATE? This is one of my favorite threads to read and I'm feeling vulnerable and weak.

 

[buddythelion]

No joke, this one tank was my favorite nano-cube and I learned tons from ange062. I took what I learned from here and applied into my big leap with my Solana 25. Only reason why I bought the Aquamaxx and 2 little fishy reactor!

 

[ange062]

very nice looks like you are getting the most out of this AIO very jammed packed!

Thanks a ton!!!

I'm hoping for the best in that you figure out what the deal is. Our tanks have their ups and downs, just gotta pull through it. Your tank has been one of my favs!

Thanks a bunch Steph, still a WIP but at least Im givin it a shot!

there'salways the immeasurable element called the "idiot factor" which gets introduced into the tank when someone watches it for you. Its not measurable because someone who does something stupid may never know it, or may realize it and may still never tell you because they dont want to screw up a friendship.

Honestly I can point blame or accept, and when it comes down to it I used to spend hours a day on the tank and now its hours per week at best. Nobody to fault but myself!

Ange, Good luck luck with the tank. It will be interesting what direction you take. The good news for me is you will be posting more often. Have a happy new year.

Marty

Thanks a bunch as always Marty, this tank aint goin nowhere after its 2+ yrs of existence so going to get things back under control and start a new acro farm!

UPDATE? This is one of my favorite threads to read and I'm feeling vulnerable and weak.

Hahah, thanks bud, been with your build from the start and love how it's progressed!!! Like I said, its not going anywhere, just lookin for a reboot.

No joke, this one tank was my favorite nano-cube and I learned tons from ange062. I took what I learned from here and applied into my big leap with my Solana 25. Only reason why I bought the Aquamaxx and 2 little fishy reactor!

Haha, thanks for the great compliments!! And I should definitely hit those guys up for some kind of sponsorship deal... At any rate they make great products so need my fellow reefees to endulge in the best, why hide a great thing?!?

And I know it sounds funny, but Ive been puttin in some work on a new planted tank as I try to revive the reef. So cheap, quiet, peaceful, and easy in comparison!

 

[KafudaFish]

I have 4 cents to add to the why question and am sure you have thought about it too.

1. Could your water source have changed? Different times of the year water treatment plants treat their water differently and something could have gotten through causing issue and you would never really know.

2. Could your light spectrum/intensity shifted and some of your corals couldn’t handle the change as well as the clams etc.? You had some level of photo inhibition that stressed them and something else came along and whacked the tank.

Just thinking out loud.....

 

[Alavaster]

Great build! That Nudibranch is awesome!

 

[ange062]

I have 4 cents to add to the why question and am sure you have thought about it too.

1. Could your water source have changed? Different times of the year water treatment plants treat their water differently and something could have gotten through causing issue and you would never really know.

2. Could your light spectrum/intensity shifted and some of your corals couldn't handle the change as well as the clams etc.? You had some level of photo inhibition that stressed them and something else came along and whacked the tank.

Just thinking out loud.....

Appreciate the brainstorming session!! I don't think the water is to blame, I change out the filters on my RODI regularly and the TDS meters and test kits haven't showed anything conclusive in this area. As far as my local water authority publicly reports they are using chloramines and my RODI is setup accordingly so I should be covered for all circumstances (a chloramines carbon block is effective for both chloramines and chlorine). My light profile on the Radion hasn't changed in ages, so spectrum should be the same. I'd imagine there has been some minuscule level of shift due to aging of the LED's, but with a lifetime rating of 50k power on hours (POH has we say in the semiconductor industry) I'd expect very little if any impact to spectrum or output after 1.5-yrs at ~10-hrs/day (~5500 hours) at drastically reduced power (i.e. voltage with only running 70% intensity) which is the primary acceleration factor for wear out in semiconductor reliability models. Sorry for the nerdy response, I do semiconductor quality for a living

My guess is still a phosphate spike from switch in GFO media. I noticed the first signs of this after switching 100% to BRS HC GFO. Originally I ran TLF Phosban exclusively, then started a 50/50 rotation with the BRS, then finally switched to 100% BRS after which I started to notice the problems. The cyano and bubbles also point in this direction. I just got another 454g of Phosban in so we will see what happens over the next month. I've also toyed with the idea of adding a 3rd reactor and starting to run Zeovit to get my system back to UNLS (even though test kits still read UNLS). Unfortunately they don't make any inline Zeo reactors that I have seen, so I will have to ghetto rig one out of a TLF 150 plumbed in remotely and just manually give the reactor a 180deg rotation daily to mix up the Zeolite media.

Great build! That Nudibranch is awesome!

Thanks a bunch!! Unfortunately, that nudi got sucked up into my MP10 about 3 times before finally being chopped up and killed. It was gorgeous while it was around, wish I could have had it as a long term member of the tank.

 

[KafudaFish]

Sometimes eliminating everything but one area is just as good as finding it directly so it sounds like you have done just that.

I hope that things continue to turn around and continue to improve for you. It looks like you are on the path to recovery and enjoyment once again.

Good luck and once again am sorry you had these issues.

 

[ange062]

Sometimes eliminating everything but one area is just as good as finding it directly so it sounds like you have done just that.

I hope that things continue to turn around and continue to improve for you. It looks like you are on the path to recovery and enjoyment once again.

Good luck and once again am sorry you had these issues.

Thanks! Things really aren't all that horrible, I lost my most delicate corals and now I can replace them with better stuff since my tastes have changed. Now if only I could get rid of all the birdsnest and zoas I have left that are taking over!! Phosban is in after today's water change *fingers crossed*

Also snagged a quick video of my skunk cleaner shrimp. This lil guy has been in the tank for just a month under 2-yrs as of today! Still just as friendly as ever, if not straight up complacent like my clowns that will let me cup them in my hand, LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuIHZCgALEU

 

[pleuralplexus]

Sounds like PO4 to me too. I've had zero measurable dissolved phoshates since the day I set up my tank too, however nothing else could account for the occasional slight algae bloom that arises about 1.5 months after I change my GFO, and subsides days after fresh GFO. I think that your theory that the algae grows and consumes dissolved phosphate ions to zero is likely true.

Although my crappy a** stock LED hood has bleached all of my corals, I sould say that everything is growing, coraline is encrusting fine, and all of my acroporas (five colonies) are alive and growing. When you first tought me about the phosban reactors, I filled both of them almost all the way up with Phosban when I got em (even though the instructions say not to do this) and I managed to see dramatic micro-and macroalgae carnage to the point that the tank was nearly sterilized of any algae or cyanobacteria at all (which cost me some hermit crabs) in just a few days. Then I backed off to just filling one reactor halfway full with TLF phosban. It works so well that I've barely got any cleaner crew at all now.

Also, my meager experience has tought me that my MP10 can actually force too much flow on some of my shaggier-polyped acroporas. One colony lost flesh on only the windward side of the flow (it was directly in front of the MP10) and then promptly grew algae in that area only. Now that ive moved the MP10 over some, the flesh is re-covering some of the denuded skeleton. No other acro has had this happen and they're starting to affix themselves to the rock.

 

[ange062]

Sounds like PO4 to me too. I've had zero measurable dissolved phoshates since the day I set up my tank too, however nothing else could account for the occasional slight algae bloom that arises about 1.5 months after I change my GFO, and subsides days after fresh GFO. I think that your theory that the algae grows and consumes dissolved phosphate ions to zero is likely true.

Although my crappy a** stock LED hood has bleached all of my corals, I sould say that everything is growing, coraline is encrusting fine, and all of my acroporas (five colonies) are alive and growing. When you first tought me about the phosban reactors, I filled both of them almost all the way up with Phosban when I got em (even though the instructions say not to do this) and I managed to see dramatic micro-and macroalgae carnage to the point that the tank was nearly sterilized of any algae or cyanobacteria at all (which cost me some hermit crabs) in just a few days. Then I backed off to just filling one reactor halfway full with TLF phosban. It works so well that I've barely got any cleaner crew at all now.

Also, my meager experience has tought me that my MP10 can actually force too much flow on some of my shaggier-polyped acroporas. One colony lost flesh on only the windward side of the flow (it was directly in front of the MP10) and then promptly grew algae in that area only. Now that ive moved the MP10 over some, the flesh is re-covering some of the denuded skeleton. No other acro has had this happen and they're starting to affix themselves to the rock.

It's definitely not the MP10 since corals all over the tank have been affected, and on top of that I've even swapped sides with the MP10 to see if there was any difference! And my experiences with GFO (even Phosban which I consider the best) have been similar to your accounts. Glad to see that we came to the same conclusion from different experiences. I'm very glad to hear your tank is progressing well, and thanks for the feedback!

I had another casualty today that upset me on a deeper level than most of the corals... It's wasn't anything systemic, but rather a fluke. I was out of town for 2-days on business, came came back to my treasured black & white maxima laying on its side basically under the ricordia. I've noticed that the ricordia have quite a potent sting (seen them fend off everything from zoas, to causing PM on my bigger maxima, to completely obliterating acros). Since my maxima's are all in the sand they wonder and get knocked over, but I wasn't here to correct this one. Came home to the nearly empty shell of what was one of my Top3 prized possessions in the tank

RIP my B&W ORA Maxima! Last pics of what was a rare black and white beauty. As a note, I did move the shell out from under the rics to take these pics, before someone asks

And back when I first got it, just under a year ago:

 

[ange062]

Even after the switch back to Phosban (albeit short term) I haven't seen much if any recovery. Tossed my sunset mille today since it was beyond repair, ORA green stylo is on it's way out. ORA purple stylo and ORA hyacinth birds are still growing like weeds, as are softies. Fish and 3 remaining clams are doing well.

I may try starting up Zeovit this weekend in place of my GFO reactor. There really aren't any inline reactors available (all are meant to be used in a sump) so I think I'm going to engineer a way to make the TLF150 easy to rotate 180deg in place of a stir handle. Should be an interesting experiment at any rate...

All my test kits (Salifert and Elos) are still reading 0/0 on nitrate/phosphate and all other parms are still in line.

At this point the softies have taken over so much of the tank, I think I may have to have a softy side and SPS side unless I start completely over with fresh LR!!

 

[jfmichalak]

Been a long time reader of this thread...I'm planning on moving to the Radion lights and was wondering what you did about a lid? Is your's top open? I think I found a company that makes a glass lid for the JBJ 28G...I cant seems to find what you ending up doing.

Thanks for the awesome thread!