My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...

[Stuginski]

this comes from a large public aquarium. They dose all fish now with chloroquine for 30 days at 8 mg/l and for infected fish they use 10mg/l. No more copper.

Hi Alprazo...just one question:

10mg/l every day during 30 days or as a single shot???

Some of you know that I´m treating a longnose butterflyfish with CP (10mg/l single shot) the fish was worst than a parmegiana steak...today he seems much more clear (day 5). I hope that this clear improvement is related to the medicine and not to the parasite cicle!!!

My toxic ammonia increased....for now I can handle with this...let's see.

Hails from Brazil

D.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Unless you were wanting to drop it all the way down to 1.009 and perform hyposalinity, this will do nothing. Ich doesn't die until the SG reaches 1.009. Also, hypo should be done in lieu of CP - I wouldn't combine treatments.

Hypo is easy enough to do, but it has downsides: There are hypo resistant strains of Ich, and you have to be able to hold the SG at 1.009 for at least one solid month. If it even inches up to 1.010 (say, due to evaporation) then you have to start the clock all over again. It's a PITA if you ask me.

I agree about hypo. I tried it before and it didn't work. I did a little fishing today and all are in the QT. Clock starts today. Good news is I talked to Mr. Fishman and am getting CP. I also talked to the gut who is in charge of the aquariums at the Marine Science Center in Daytona and he swears by this stuff. I don't understand why none of the LFSs in the area have even heard of CP.

As far as the wrasse do you have a particular brand of copper treatment and test kit you recommend?

 

[b0bab0ey]

I agree about hypo. I tried it before and it didn't work. I did a little fishing today and all are in the QT. Clock starts today. Good news is I talked to Mr. Fishman and am getting CP. I also talked to the gut who is in charge of the aquariums at the Marine Science Center in Daytona and he swears by this stuff. I don't understand why none of the LFSs in the area have even heard of CP.

As you found out, obtaining CP can be difficult. From what I've read, it was much easier to get in the 70s & 80s. Even some LFSs carried it. But for some reason Big Brother has decided that it needs to be regulated/controlled/whatever. If you treat all your new fish purchases with it in QT, you won't be sorry. I'm sold on the stuff.

As far as the wrasse do you have a particular brand of copper treatment and test kit you recommend?

I just finished QT'ing a Melanurus and a Six Line with Coppersafe. Both tolerated it fairly well (no appetite suppression). I use API copper test kit w/Coppersafe. But for what it's worth you could probably achieve the same results using Cupramine w/Salifert copper test kit.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

I definitely will QT all fish with CP! Thanks for the recommendations on the Copper. I found a LFS st sells the Dr G Antiparasitic frozen food. I'm picking some of that as well. Once I start treatment, if you don't mind, I would like to keep this thread updated.

 

[alprazo]

Stuginski,

Yes one dose. I do 30 days for ich.

I'll be there for World Cup. Looking forward to it.

 

[alprazo]

My issue with Fishman Chem. along with other info I've seen.

A quote from their website. " NOTE: CHLOROQUINE PHOSPHATE IS IN HIGH DEMAND & SHORT SUPPLY DUE TO THE OUTBREAK OF MALARIA IN EAST AFRICA. WHERE QUININE WAS USED IN HUMANS FOR MANY DECADES, THE DRUG OF CHOICE IS NOW CHLOROQUINE AS HUMANS WILL NOT FORM A TOLERANCE TO IT."

Resistance to chloroquine in East Africa is so prevalent that it is no longer recommended for use there. This is not new either. Far from the drug of choice expect for several select locals.

 

[alprazo]

They are not alone. National Fish Pharm says on their website,

"The best treatment we offer for this parasite is Quinine Sulfate, or Crypto - Pro. It works better than Chloroquine phosphate that you will see many chat room members recommend to you. It will kill the ich at any stage of it's cycle. But, if the ich is in the tomont stage, and embedded into your sand, or coral... there are not any medications that will help you at this point. You will be forced to change your substrate (gravel) to remove all of the tomonts/tomites buried within it. This can be hard to accept and afford. You could bleach your gravel, or wash it with a pressure washer... and then later on, you will run into the same problem."

I would love to see the scientific studies that support this statement. I've been looking and looking.....

Misinformation is common and expected on chat room like this. But is it necessary on an OTC pharmaceutical website that is trying to sell us something.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I definitely will QT all fish with CP! Thanks for the recommendations on the Copper. I found a LFS st sells the Dr G Antiparasitic frozen food. I'm picking some of that as well. Once I start treatment, if you don't mind, I would like to keep this thread updated.

By all means! Providing details of your experience using CP will help others as they read through this thread.

Good luck!

 

[alprazo]

And fishmoxfishflex states that it covers flukes, I guess no more prazi needed if using their pure chloroquine product.

"Fish quine forte - powder is used as a bacteriacide, and algaecide, and is superior in the fight against ich, sliminess of the skin, and flukes. Can be used both as a preventative and as a treatment."

Not sure what to think about the sliminess problem. I guess it would help with handling eels. Btw, I've looked for it treating monogenia and really have not found that evidence either.

 

[alprazo]

Dup

 

[Stuginski]

Hey Alprazo if you come to São Paulo...visit me and we can meet each other to talk about sharks, soccer and caipirinhas

Guys..

Day 6 of treatment: longnose improved 90% but still keeps ich spots in his face. The fins are little rotted.

All other fishes are fine but something very strange happened. Tails and some parts of fins of all fishes are darker (like a fine layer of black paint)...even in transparent tails.

Is this normal?

regards

D.

 

[cabinetman123]

Updates anyone?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

I picked up the Dr Gs Antiparasitic food and fed to fish in QT. I was forewarned by the LFS that the fish may spit it out so I put some garlic in it and added their usual mysis. They ate all but one piece. I am still waiting on the CP to come in from Dr. Fishman. In the meantime water changes are being done. Once I get the CP I'll post updates.

 

[JoshuaG]

My issue with Fishman Chem. along with other info I've seen.

A quote from their website. " NOTE: CHLOROQUINE PHOSPHATE IS IN HIGH DEMAND & SHORT SUPPLY DUE TO THE OUTBREAK OF MALARIA IN EAST AFRICA. WHERE QUININE WAS USED IN HUMANS FOR MANY DECADES, THE DRUG OF CHOICE IS NOW CHLOROQUINE AS HUMANS WILL NOT FORM A TOLERANCE TO IT."

Resistance to chloroquine in East Africa is so prevalent that it is no longer recommended for use there. This is not new either. Far from the drug of choice expect for several select locals.

Do you think ich can form a resistance to CP to where they are no longer killed by it no matter the dosage?

 

[Stuginski]

Anyone is using prime (seachen) to control ammonia peak after CP?

I'm using it, but I'm afraid that this can interfere with Cholroquine...because prime bounds chloramines, Ammonia, etc...

What do you think???

Hails from Brazil

D.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Anyone is using prime (seachen) to control ammonia peak after CP?

I'm using it, but I'm afraid that this can interfere with Cholroquine...because prime bounds chloramines, Ammonia, etc...

What do you think???

D.

I could be wrong but my understanding is that Chloroquine does not affect the biological filter so no need for Prime.

 

[alprazo]

I have used prime or amquel without issue.

Newsmyrna80 - yes, definitely. If it is used in sub therapeutic doses at collectors or wholesale facilities as described and suggested by the most read fish magazine, it won't take long. Look at the resistance map to malaria or the incidence of MRSA vs 20 yrs ago. Actually the incidence is dropping for some unknown reason. Life has a unique ability to stay alive called errors in DNA repair and germ line mutation.

I want to try mefloquine for ich. It is just too expensive. Though I have promoted this med incessantly on this board, there are no good published studies I can find for ich. All the work has been done on velvet. Therefore the posts on this board and other success or failure stories we hear are important in formulating an opinion. We need an actual study though, with gill and skin scrapings, plus a control group to really have answers on chloroquine and ich. .

 

[Stuginski]

I could be wrong but my understanding is that Chloroquine does not affect the biological filter so no need for Prime.

Hi News...

Buddy I'm pretty sure that this thing affect the biological filtration because I'm dealing with a peak of ammonia a few days after dose it. I don't have any algae or live rock in my 150gal...just a huge amount of syporax ...and I never have seen a ammonia spike before....even when I fed agressively.
CP seems a good medication, after a weak my longnose is clean and none of the other fishes stopped eating but I'm pretty sure that this thing affected my bacteria.

Best regards and sorry for my terrible english

D.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Buddy I'm pretty sure that this thing affect the biological filtration because I'm dealing with a peak of ammonia a few days after dose it. I don't have any algae or live rock in my 150gal...just a huge amount of syporax ...and I never have seen a ammonia spike before....even when I fed agressively.

I've used CP countless times now with a seeded sponge and never saw any ammonia. And some of my QT bio-loads have been heavy. It's possible CP is interfering with your ammonia test kit and giving false positives. Copper does this. If you can locate this product over there, try one of these:

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html

It works, even in the presence of medications.

Also, what is syporax? Is that those noodle things?

 

[Stuginski]

Hi Boba...

I'm already using seachem ammonia alert, and I'm talking based on 2 of these that I have in my tank. For months the color was yellow and now both are absolutely in green range.
I don't know why but some folks have this issue and others like you don have. I'm completely convinced that this ammonia spike was caused by the CP (at least in my case).
After a week of treatment these are my statements:

1- Longnose is much better. There just a few ich marks in his fins maybe 4 or 5.

2- All my fishes (4 butterflyfishes) keep eating during this time.

3- My water is cloudy and my skimmer doesn't work very well

4- After 4 days of treatment my falcula changed his color. He seems dirty...like a fine layer of black paint over some parts of his body. He is acting normally but he is ugly

5- I have a ammonia spike.

My only concern is:

There is a chance of this improvement of Longnose is just a matter of ich cycle and is not related with CP...IF this is true I'm f###!!

HAILS FROM BRAZIL

D.