H.reidi.MN
New member
Its supposed to suffice for protozoan infections at 10mg/l or 40mg/g but advanced aquarist seems to think around 15mg/l for ich and 20mg/l for uronema
My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...
- Thread starter b0bab0ey
- Start date
Deinonych
New member
I don't treat wrasses with CP anymore. According to alprazo (the resident expert here), 40mg/gal is sufficient to eradicate crypto. I typically treat at 60mg/gal for "active" infections - i.e. lots of spots visible.
Day 14 (day 11 of CP treatment): he has a white gash behind his right pectoral fin (on his body not fin). It just appeared this morning and he is still eating. Ammonia badge shows no alarm and an ammonia test is at 0. Nitrate is at 0.1 ppm.
Now I don't know what that is, a bacterial infection perhaps? I have kanaplex but I don't want to stop treatment of CP and misdiagnose it. I'm about to perform a water change as well.
He is still eating and swimming around, not showing any signs of stress.
A little video, hopefully you can see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWX3tNnzOL0#t=0. Slow down the video and turn on HD.
Now I don't know what that is, a bacterial infection perhaps? I have kanaplex but I don't want to stop treatment of CP and misdiagnose it. I'm about to perform a water change as well.
He is still eating and swimming around, not showing any signs of stress.
A little video, hopefully you can see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWX3tNnzOL0#t=0. Slow down the video and turn on HD.
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Day 16 (day 13 of CP treatment): The gash looking thing behind his pectoral fin is starting to look like 2 white dots... I suppose I've got a confirmed case of Ich and am now using CP from a preventative measure to a treatment for him.
He still has an appetite, and swimming around with no signs of stress. The water has a yellow tint even after the water change, I'm assuming this is the CP treatment.
I'll keep monitoring him, another 17 days of CP to go, i'm hoping to see the dots clear up in the next few days.
He still has an appetite, and swimming around with no signs of stress. The water has a yellow tint even after the water change, I'm assuming this is the CP treatment.
I'll keep monitoring him, another 17 days of CP to go, i'm hoping to see the dots clear up in the next few days.
jnc914
Active member
Sounds more like Lymphocystis than active ich. I have seen several other people report bacterial and viral infections with the long term use of CP. Lymph, which is viral, will show up around a healing wound site if water quality has degraded since the introduction of the CP. Dosing an antibiotic at this point may not solve the issue. Have you done any water changes yet? Just because there is no measurable ammonia, nitrates, etc., doesn't mean the water isn't dirty. I typically do 10% water changes and just replace CP to the new water...
EDIT: I just went back and saw you did a water change. I would just continue to observe at this point. Can you post a pic of the 2 bumps?
Thanks for the feedback. It's very hard to get a good pic. First, he always shows his left side... he probably thinks his left looks better in pics. When I do a get a glimpse of the right, it's got to be at the right angle to see them. I do notice looking a little bruised on the side where the two white sides are.
He's still fine though, swimming around and enjoying himself.
I looked up Lymphocystis in my "marine fish health and feeding handbook", it's a shame because it states they get it due to poor water quality such as water having a yellow tint... That's exactly what my water looks like and I thought it was because of CP. I may have caused this
I'll be more aggressive with my water changes, it mentions there is no cure and just to leave it run it's course.
Question: If it is in fact Lymphocystis, when i am done treatment and i introduce him in my DT, is there any risk of it spreading? If so, what can i do to minimize the risk?
Thought I would give an update, have added a couple new additions since treating the DT. In the last couple months, I have seen no sign of ich. I think I have had 6 additions thus far that were QT'ed from 2-4 weeks. I thought for sure shortening the qt time from 4 to 2 weeks would cause cp to be ineffective but it appears to have done the trick.
Forgot to add, no ill effects to coral after dt treatment, and then removal from dt.
Forgot to add, no ill effects to coral after dt treatment, and then removal from dt.
Day 29 of CP: The treatment will be done tomorrow, keep in mind this was a prolyphactic treatment, no signs were shown. A QT for newly acquired fish.
His white gash is gone, he is eating and very active. Overall, this treatment did not show any signs of stress to Bobo. I recommend water changes during treatment as was previously posted. Ensure that the new water you are about to put in already has CP mixed into it.
His white gash is gone, he is eating and very active. Overall, this treatment did not show any signs of stress to Bobo. I recommend water changes during treatment as was previously posted. Ensure that the new water you are about to put in already has CP mixed into it.
Deinonych
New member
Six weeks post-treatment of my DT and I am starting to see signs of crypto still on my fish, unfortunately. My Royal Gramma has been flashing off and on since about week 2 post-treatment. At first, I thought it might be a remnant from an eye infection he had in QT. However, the last couple weeks he has been flashing more often, and I see some faint spots on his pectoral fins. My Tailspot Blenny started flashing a few times over the weekend as well.
Not really sure why CP didn't work, but my theory is that it was adsorbed by the rockwork, or it was consumed by the die-off of snails and algae in the tank. Another possibility is that my lights affected it, although I had them at 20% during the 4-week period (I don't have UV LEDs in my Radions, though). Yet another possibility is that the strain of crypto I'm dealing with had a life cycle greater than 4 weeks.
At this point, I'm going to move all of my fish into a 40g breeder and treat with Cupramine for 4 weeks. As much as I like using CP, I don't want to subject my fish to yet another round of it since the long-term effects of exposure are unknown. I want to be absolutely sure I eradicate the crypto this time, and Cupramine levels can be measured and tested. I'm also going to do a complete tear-down, sterilization and rebuild of my tank. I've also be battling hair algae and cyano (as expected) post-treatment, and this will give me a completely fresh start. I'm actually looking forward to redesigning the rockwork and cycling a new tank.
I will still use CP as part of my QT regimen for new arrivals.
Not really sure why CP didn't work, but my theory is that it was adsorbed by the rockwork, or it was consumed by the die-off of snails and algae in the tank. Another possibility is that my lights affected it, although I had them at 20% during the 4-week period (I don't have UV LEDs in my Radions, though). Yet another possibility is that the strain of crypto I'm dealing with had a life cycle greater than 4 weeks.
At this point, I'm going to move all of my fish into a 40g breeder and treat with Cupramine for 4 weeks. As much as I like using CP, I don't want to subject my fish to yet another round of it since the long-term effects of exposure are unknown. I want to be absolutely sure I eradicate the crypto this time, and Cupramine levels can be measured and tested. I'm also going to do a complete tear-down, sterilization and rebuild of my tank. I've also be battling hair algae and cyano (as expected) post-treatment, and this will give me a completely fresh start. I'm actually looking forward to redesigning the rockwork and cycling a new tank.
I will still use CP as part of my QT regimen for new arrivals.
Sorry to hear CP didn't work out for you. IMHO, using CP in a DT with rock/sand introduces too much of an "X" factor to be trusted. Same as using copper in a DT. I've also read about people continuing to run lights, carbon, UV, etc. while using CP. More "X" factors.
Perhaps since alprazo is (somewhat) back, he will weigh in on these issues.
IMHO, using CP in a DT with rock/sand introduces too much of an "X" factor to be trusted. Same as using copper in a DT. I've also read about people continuing to run lights, carbon, UV, etc. while using CP. More "X" factors.Perhaps since alprazo is (somewhat) back, he will weigh in on these issues.
IMO your lights probably degraded the CP, even at 20%
I have found CP to be very light sensitive. I have had treatment failures with low intensity LED's (AI's at 30% shining through submersed clear plastic trays with coral in them, in a 180g) followed by successful treatment outcomes (same setup) with LED's off and only ambient light from the room
Deinonych
New member
Sorry to hear CP didn't work out for you.
Thanks. I knew it was a risk, but it was worth trying. I'm just chalking it up to another learning experience.
Interesting. That would make sense, as the RG started flashing so soon after treatment ended.
I'm still going to do a tear-down and rebuild due to the algae/cyano issues. But perhaps I will reconsider going with copper in the HT and just do CP again.
Do you have any experience with multiple exposures to CP? This will be the third treatment for my RG, two clowns and firefish. The others in the tank (tailspot blenny, one-spot foxface and blue chromis) have only received one treatment so far (in QT prior to introduction to the DT).
holdyourlight
New member
See this is the part that gets me. I have treated multiple times for 4 weeks and it has come back every time. (As Deinonych and i have discussed through PM, i'm treating for 10-12 weeks this go round...). If the CP were degrading during the the time the medicine is in the water, wouldn't i be seeing spots on my fish during treatment? I've never seen one spot while treating in my DT and i've been experimenting with CP for 2 years now.
My theory is that you need to go longer if you are treating an active DT infection as the cysts can survive the treatment. I'm trying to go the same amount of time as a safe fallow period. I'm on day 67 right now of this CP treatment. If it comes back after this time, i'm going to lose my mind though...
without the ability to test CP levels this is all a guessing game and my guess is that CP is significantly degraded by light, based on my experience
I've been using CP for about 3.5 yrs and have had remarkably good success treating all types of fish. Before that I used copper for marine fish disease for about 40 years, and had treatment failures with that too, in fact far more with copper, primarily due to it's narrow therapeutic range: too low it's ineffective, too high it's toxic
Regarding lengthy treatments with CP, I've treated an Achilles for 5 months now and he is thriving: growing in length and girth, eating like a champ
I've been using CP for about 3.5 yrs and have had remarkably good success treating all types of fish. Before that I used copper for marine fish disease for about 40 years, and had treatment failures with that too, in fact far more with copper, primarily due to it's narrow therapeutic range: too low it's ineffective, too high it's toxic
Regarding lengthy treatments with CP, I've treated an Achilles for 5 months now and he is thriving: growing in length and girth, eating like a champ
holdyourlight
New member
Wouldn't doubt that. I dosed @ 15mg/g so i guess my theory is that even if there is some absorption/degradation, if the CP was degraded to the point where it became ineffective then i would be seeing spots re-appear during treatment, and i never have. I see it several days after i remove it from the water. Again, hoping that a 10-12 week treatment will do the trick.
Fantastic to hear. Definitely interested to hear what happens when you remove the CP ( i guess if you ever remove it!).... Especially on that particular fish.
salty joe
Active member
Rather than wait out the life cycle why not physically break it with the transfer method in two weeks? One batch of CP water could be made at the start. That's assuming CP would be effective for eliminating traces of a few other diseases. This is what I'm considering for QT of new arrivals, as long as they show no signs of infection. We all know the bugs are there.
Then do Prazi. Seems to me you could get the fish out of QT much quicker with confidence that at least ich is gone.
Then do Prazi. Seems to me you could get the fish out of QT much quicker with confidence that at least ich is gone.
Deinonych
New member
Thanks Elliot. Really appreciate your sharing your experience...VERY helpful!
BTW, have you ever had any success treating Cirrhilabrus or Paracheilinus spp. wrasses with CP? If so, any tips you could share? I have had repeated failures with these two genera in particular. I have two Paracheilinus wrasses (P. mccoskeri and P. cyaneus) in QT right now, and plan to either observe or treat with Cupramine before introduction.
have had very good results using CP in QT with C. Solorensis, C. Aurantidorsalis and C. lubbocki. All three went through 30d QT at 40mg/g
have not purchased any Paracheilinus so no experience with those, although I would not hesitate to do so, unless they arrive with obvious disease I prefer to let them settle in and eat for a week or so before treatment, I often start with gut loaded live brine then transition to frozen mysis
I currently have 4 Anampses meleagrides in QT with CP at 40mg/g for the past 15 days that are doing quite well. They have LR and a sand bed.
have successfully QT'ed the following wrasses with CP at 40mg/g:
x1 Anampses chrysocephalus
x1 Anampses meleagrides
x2 Cirrhilabrus jordani
x2 Macropharyngodon bipartitus
x1 Macropharyngodon meleagris
x5 Macropharyngodon geoffroyi
x1 Macropharyngodon negrosensis
x1 Halichoeres melanurus
x3 Halichoeres chrysus
I probably left some out, can't remember them all
regarding the Achilles, I don't know if I will ever have the nerve to release him in my display, beautiful specimen probably 6 inches with great color and personality, just don't trust their immune system, my plan is to treat for another month or two, then remove CP and see if he remains disease free for a couple of months, will see
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I've had rather bad luck with the transfer method, fish get too stressed with repeated moves from tank to tank and die from shock
IME stress has been the major obstacle with QT, especially with delicate wrasses
