My new brains
- Thread starter anguswu
- Start date
HookedOnReefing
Premium Member
Very nice!
Nice pictures too.
Nice pictures too.
MinibowMatt
Active member
Im not 100% sure on your ID's
The top one looks like a Scoly to me, and a nice one..
the last one too.. doesnt look like a scoly to me...
The top one looks like a Scoly to me, and a nice one..
the last one too.. doesnt look like a scoly to me...
Justin74
New member
There's obviously someone on the other side of the blue fancy'ing themselves as an ID artist 
But anguswu's right in believing that as there are many of those being sold as such. Possibly either by another taxonomist other than Veron, or is an outdated ID. As you can see that specie classification apparently does not exist anymore:
http://www2.aims.gov.au/coralsearch/coralid_search.php
Probably something similar to the Trachyphillia and Wellsophyllia scenario..
Probably a Scolymia australis, but closely resembles this Mussa angulosa:
Only thing is it looks like those are found only in the Carribean, not sure if there endemic or not though.
All the ID's aside, I LOVE those Blasto wellsi's!! Missed my chance on that morph 6 months ago, now Im still kickin myself!!
-Justin
But anguswu's right in believing that as there are many of those being sold as such. Possibly either by another taxonomist other than Veron, or is an outdated ID. As you can see that specie classification apparently does not exist anymore:
http://www2.aims.gov.au/coralsearch/coralid_search.php
Probably something similar to the Trachyphillia and Wellsophyllia scenario..
Probably a Scolymia australis, but closely resembles this Mussa angulosa:
Only thing is it looks like those are found only in the Carribean, not sure if there endemic or not though.
All the ID's aside, I LOVE those Blasto wellsi's!! Missed my chance on that morph 6 months ago, now Im still kickin myself!!
-Justin
seapug
Premium Member
Nice ones.
First two pics are indeed Cynarina deshayesiana. They are commonly misidentified as Scolymia. An article on Scolymias that was on Reefkeeping.com a couple months back discussed this common ID mistake.
The bottom one might be a Trachyphyllia. Seeing the skeleton is the only way to know for sure. If it's smooth, rounded, and tapers to a point in the middle it's probably a Trachy. If it has a longer chunky "stem" it's probably a Scoly. Based on how it appears to be sitting in the rockwork it looks like it might have more of a stem, so Scoly might be the correct ID.
First two pics are indeed Cynarina deshayesiana. They are commonly misidentified as Scolymia. An article on Scolymias that was on Reefkeeping.com a couple months back discussed this common ID mistake.
The bottom one might be a Trachyphyllia. Seeing the skeleton is the only way to know for sure. If it's smooth, rounded, and tapers to a point in the middle it's probably a Trachy. If it has a longer chunky "stem" it's probably a Scoly. Based on how it appears to be sitting in the rockwork it looks like it might have more of a stem, so Scoly might be the correct ID.
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Justin74
New member
You mean this article?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-11/reefslides/index.php
How from that article can you insist that it is indeed a Cynarina deshayesiana ? First off there is no mention whatsoever of this specie in the article. However, Eric does mention Cynarina lacrymalis, which coincides with my insinuation above. There evidently is no such thing as Cynarina deshayesiana, or at least recognized by Veron. The skeletons are pretty distinctual though so anguswu will be able to differentiate between the two.
-Justin
seapug
Premium Member
That article has some info about it. This one has more detailed info:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/invert.htm
Veron referred to it as Acanthophyllia deshayesiana. Acanthophyllia has now been moved to Cynarina.
Cynarina lacrymalis has the large transparent lobes. Like this:
Cynarina deshayesiana looks very much like a Scolymia but has much more defined teeth on the septa and is capable of greater tissue inflation than Scolymia:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/invert.htm
Veron referred to it as Acanthophyllia deshayesiana. Acanthophyllia has now been moved to Cynarina.
Cynarina lacrymalis has the large transparent lobes. Like this:
Cynarina deshayesiana looks very much like a Scolymia but has much more defined teeth on the septa and is capable of greater tissue inflation than Scolymia:
seapug
Premium Member
From that article:
Cynarina (=Acanthophyllia) deshayesiana
Although Acanthophyllia deshayesiana is supposed to be a synonym of Cynarina lacrymalis, (Veron, 2000), it differs from the former in several respects that contradict the definition of Cynarina lacrymalis. One difference is the appearance of the polyps. In Acanthophyllia deshayesiana the polyps are not translucent, but completely opaque. The thickness of the tissue is also greater than in C. lacrymalis, so that it has a texture like Lobophyllia spp. or Solymia australis. Polyp expansion, however, is the same as for Cynarina lacrymalis. Coloration matches the range and appearance for Scolymia australis, and as a result this coral is commonly mis-identified as Scolymia sp. The expansion of the tissue in Scolymia australis, however, does not achieve the dramatic proportions of Acanthophyllia deshayesiana or Cynarina lacrymalis. The polyp of Acanthophyllia deshayesiana also does not form the vesicles typical in Cynarina lacrymalis. Another difference is the size of the corallum. Although in some regions there does not appear to be a difference in the size of the corallum, in Indonesia the corallum of Acanthophyllia deshayesiana can be at least twice as large as that of Cynarina lacrymalis, to 6 inches in diameter (Sprung, 2000). Still another difference is the appearance of the primary septo-costae. In small and medium sized Acanthophyllia deshayesiana they are not thickened like dog teeth, but in the largest specimens they can be somewhat thickened (though still flatter than in typical C. lacrymalis). Also, the sharp dentations on the septo-costae are typically taller than in C. lacrymalis. Another skeletal difference exists. In Acanthophyllia deshayesiana the formation of a distinct crown of paliform lobes in the center of the polyp is nearly absent, though some of the septa may have a pallus lobe (Sprung, 2000). Although I have not had the opportunity to view large numbers of polyps and skeletons from Japan and the Red Sea, the specimens I saw when I visited these two regions appeared to have one form of skeleton (like A. deshayesiana but only achieving the size of C. lacrymalis) and two forms of polyps (like both Cynarina lacrymalis and Acanthophyllia deshayesiana). The giant corallum forms I have only seen from Indonesia. I must point out that the "Cynarina lacrymalis" skeleton on page 83 in Veron (2000) and the skeletons shown in figure 8(a-c) in Borel Best and Hoeksema (1987), that originate from Komodo, Indonesia, are typical of the deshayesiana form, not the lacrymalis form. The most complete illustration of the different forms is in Sprung (2000).
Cynarina (=Acanthophyllia) deshayesiana
Although Acanthophyllia deshayesiana is supposed to be a synonym of Cynarina lacrymalis, (Veron, 2000), it differs from the former in several respects that contradict the definition of Cynarina lacrymalis. One difference is the appearance of the polyps. In Acanthophyllia deshayesiana the polyps are not translucent, but completely opaque. The thickness of the tissue is also greater than in C. lacrymalis, so that it has a texture like Lobophyllia spp. or Solymia australis. Polyp expansion, however, is the same as for Cynarina lacrymalis. Coloration matches the range and appearance for Scolymia australis, and as a result this coral is commonly mis-identified as Scolymia sp. The expansion of the tissue in Scolymia australis, however, does not achieve the dramatic proportions of Acanthophyllia deshayesiana or Cynarina lacrymalis. The polyp of Acanthophyllia deshayesiana also does not form the vesicles typical in Cynarina lacrymalis. Another difference is the size of the corallum. Although in some regions there does not appear to be a difference in the size of the corallum, in Indonesia the corallum of Acanthophyllia deshayesiana can be at least twice as large as that of Cynarina lacrymalis, to 6 inches in diameter (Sprung, 2000). Still another difference is the appearance of the primary septo-costae. In small and medium sized Acanthophyllia deshayesiana they are not thickened like dog teeth, but in the largest specimens they can be somewhat thickened (though still flatter than in typical C. lacrymalis). Also, the sharp dentations on the septo-costae are typically taller than in C. lacrymalis. Another skeletal difference exists. In Acanthophyllia deshayesiana the formation of a distinct crown of paliform lobes in the center of the polyp is nearly absent, though some of the septa may have a pallus lobe (Sprung, 2000). Although I have not had the opportunity to view large numbers of polyps and skeletons from Japan and the Red Sea, the specimens I saw when I visited these two regions appeared to have one form of skeleton (like A. deshayesiana but only achieving the size of C. lacrymalis) and two forms of polyps (like both Cynarina lacrymalis and Acanthophyllia deshayesiana). The giant corallum forms I have only seen from Indonesia. I must point out that the "Cynarina lacrymalis" skeleton on page 83 in Veron (2000) and the skeletons shown in figure 8(a-c) in Borel Best and Hoeksema (1987), that originate from Komodo, Indonesia, are typical of the deshayesiana form, not the lacrymalis form. The most complete illustration of the different forms is in Sprung (2000).
Justin74
New member
Yea, read the article. It sounds that theres some disagreance in adopting the Acanthophyllia deshayesiana specie as a Cynarina. But it still stands there is no Cynarina deshayesiana although that would be the appropriate assumption to provide a name where there needs to be a difference shown... still a little presumptious at this point in time?
-Justin
-Justin
