My reef has ich....HELP!

[airtime23]

300 gallon reef, about 30 fish.

Several fish have ich, including now my foxface lo.

I have decided to bite the bullet, take apart the rockwork, and catch all the fish and move them into a QT.

Now, my question is: how many quarantine tanks will I need for that many fish? Should a 75 gallon suffice or would I have to get several 20 gallon tanks? The logistics of it escape me.

Also, should I put them thru tank transfer on the front end or the back end of the 72 day fallow period? Also, should I do treatment with copper AND TTM both?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Jade5051]

That's a lot of fish...

If you are doing 20g longs you'll want to setup like 6 tanks minimum possibly more. You may want to do two or three 75 gallon tanks. Or even just one 180g?

You could do TTM in 20g longs with small batches of the fish say 5 at a time. Then put them into the final much larger (180g) QT holding tank. Problem with this is you need cycled water and since your DT is infected you won't be able to use that water. You probably also won't want to take the time to setup a 180g and cycle it so you can use that water for the TTM.

With that in mind I'd lean toward copper for 14 days. Either way you'll want to observe all fish for 30 days after the final one is treated. So, you'll want to start the treatment very soon if not immediately after getting all the fish in QT.

 

[m0nkie]

I would sell all the cheap / easy to get fish back to LFS for credit.. or sell it on the forum and let someone else QT them. Some fish are just not worth the TTM water.. not to mention when you take them all out, they start stressing/fighting/dying in the small QT.

do the TTM first. They will be stressed enough in the new QT. You don't want ich on top of that.

it would help decide how many tanks you need if you list all your fish and size. When i did my fallow period, I lost a lot of anthias in QT. They were very peaceful in my 100gal. but they killed each other quick in a 20gal QT

 

[ThRoewer]

Since your fish are already sick you should do TTM on the front end to rid the fish of ich.
As for the holding tanks - I would rather go with several 20 gallon tanks than one big one. That way you can separate fish that may not get along. It also gives you the option to separate the clearly sick from the seemingly unaffected.

TTM will work by itself if done right. I wouldn't use copper as it ads additional stress without adding much benefit.
With that many fish I would do TTM at half salinity to reduce stress and cut salt cost.

The alternative treatment option would be Chloroquine Phosphate (NLS Ick Shield Powder) in QTs. Two weeks (14 days) should be enough if you then transfer the fish into a parasite free holding tank.
Since you have many fish I would prefer this over TTM as a cure. In that case you still could do TTM on the back-end before returning the fish to the DT.
The only fish you can't treat with CP are pipefish, seahorses and some wrasses.

 

[Jay_R]

See post 10 on the attached. Tank transfer method works a dream and does not require medication, can be done with buckets for ease and does not require all fish to be transferred at once.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525

Do the worse affected, followed by the rest. Final move on day 13 is into the QT while the DT remains fallow. Water between moves doesn't need to be cycled due to the short stay.

 

[Perth_reefer]

Have you read this thread RE: 72 day fallow period? I wouldn't take 72 days as definitely clear of ich in your DT

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2508011

 

[tylersarah]

The alternative treatment option would be Chloroquine Phosphate (NLS Ick Shield Powder) in QTs. Two weeks (14 days) should be enough if you then transfer the fish into a parasite free holding tank.
Since you have many fish I would prefer this over TTM as a cure. In that case you still could do TTM on the back-end before returning the fish to the DT.
The only fish you can't treat with CP are pipefish, seahorses and some wrasses.

NLS Ick Shield Powder is new to me, would you mind sharing your experiences with it? Is it potent enough at a suggested dosage for other diseases such as oodinium or brook?

 

[Jay_R]

Have you read this thread RE: 72 day fallow period? I wouldn't take 72 days as definitely clear of ich in your DT

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2508011

This is circa 10 weeks... This may be OK, providing the DT temp is raised a little to 'accelerate' the respective ich life cycles. It would be advisable to leave a little longer just to be safe though.

 

[Spar]

This is circa 10 weeks... This may be OK, providing the DT temp is raised a little to 'accelerate' the respective ich life cycles. It would be advisable to leave a little longer just to be safe though.

the temp increase is related to freshwater Ich, not the Marine Ich variety. but agreed, longer the better.

 

[Perth_reefer]

This is circa 10 weeks... This may be OK, providing the DT temp is raised a little to 'accelerate' the respective ich life cycles. It would be advisable to leave a little longer just to be safe though.

Exactly my point, everyone seems to be stating that the golden 72 days will 100% eliminate ich in the DT but that does not seem to be the case. There are things you can do to help, adjust salinity, vacuum sand etc but as you say, the longer the better.

 

[Deinonych]

Exactly my point, everyone seems to be stating that the golden 72 days will 100% eliminate ich in the DT but that does not seem to be the case. There are things you can do to help, adjust salinity, vacuum sand etc but as you say, the longer the better.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed in this hobby, except that 1.) fish will die, and 2.) you will spend money.

Dealing with fish diseases is about taking steps to reduce risk. In most instances, following recommended treatments will eliminate the disease vectors from the aquarium. There will always be outliers, but one should apply Occam's Razor to those situations.

 

[Jay_R]

the temp increase is related to freshwater Ich, not the Marine Ich variety. but agreed, longer the better.

You sure? It's generally accepted that 'most' waterborne parasites grow faster in warmer waters.

Reference: Macnab, V. & Barber, I. (2011) Some (worms) like it hot: fish parasites grow faster in warmer water, and alter host thermal preferences. Global Change Biology in press. DOI: 10.1111/j.1365-2486.2011.02595.x

Reference: 2010 Australian Society for Parasitology Inc. Published by Elsevier Ltd

 

[Deinonych]

You sure? It's generally accepted that 'most' waterborne parasites grow faster in warmer waters.

Reference: Macnab, V. & Barber, I. (2011) Some (worms) like it hot: fish parasites grow faster in warmer water, and alter host thermal preferences. Global Change Biology in press. DOI: 10.1111/j.1365-2486.2011.02595.x

Reference: 2010 Australian Society for Parasitology Inc. Published by Elsevier Ltd

Optimal temperature for Cryptocaryon is 86F, so raising the temp to that point would have harmful effects on the other organisms in the aquarium (increase in blood pH, reduction of oxygen solubility).

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/mini

 

[Jay_R]

Optimal temperature for Cryptocaryon is 86F, so raising the temp to that point would have harmful effects on the other organisms in the aquarium (increase in blood pH, reduction of oxygen solubility).

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/mini

Ok... so 86F is a little high.. but a slight increase in Fahrenheit 'may' speed up the parasite cycle?

Don't get me wrong, i'd leave farrow as long as possible.. but if we can make small simple changes to accellerate the cycle then surely that can only be a good thing.

 

[Deinonych]

Ok... so 86F is a little high.. but a slight increase in Fahrenheit 'may' speed up the parasite cycle?

Don't get me wrong, i'd leave farrow as long as possible.. but if we can make small simple changes to accellerate the cycle then surely that can only be a good thing.

It might, but I haven't read anything in the literature that states raising temperature has any measurable benefit.