My Reef to Rainforest Build

[summitwynds]

If you are planning on doing daily visual checks of your system you'll be fine. Also if you have room, run slightly over-sized drains. I run standard 1.5" dursos. If you run your overflows at half their max flow rating then you'll have headroom in the off chance a drain should clog as well.

Can you split the return into 2 independent returns, or does your tank only have one spot for return plumbing? ...Maybe I misread your previous posts... Is the Sea Swirl going to be your only return?

Miracles thought that 3 independent 1" drains would be best in this coast to coast overflow which is 18" wide. Thats the widest we could go because the tank is in a closet and we need the room on each side of the overflow to fit the tank in. So to run the 3 - 1" overflows at 1/2 the max I would do that with true union ball valves? I just got the mini Maggie Mufflers in.... I see no way a big snail could ever clog the drains, especially all 3 at once, each drain pipe will have their own separate flex pvc pipes to the 3 inlets on the sump. All independent of each other. Two into filter socks, one into the refugium.

I could do as many separate returns as I want I guess. They have to be on the ends though (front and back are viewable sides) and I have to keep in mind the coast to coast on one end. My thought was to put one 1" Sea Swirl (rated at up to 3600 gph) on the opposite end of the overflow (thats where Sea Swirl recommended for the 1st one) and have 2 Vortech 40s at the overflow end. Sea Swirl thought a 2nd Sea Swirl would work on the overflow side. If thats the case do I need 2 Vortech 40s? Would 2 returns be too much flow through the sump? I could plump for a 2nd return on the overflow side, and see how the flow is and if needed add another Sea Swirl.

 

[summitwynds]

The tank:

 

[drummereef]

Miracles thought that 3 independent 1" drains would be best in this coast to coast overflow which is 18" wide. Thats the widest we could go because the tank is in a closet and we need the room on each side of the overflow to fit the tank in. So to run the 3 - 1" overflows at 1/2 the max I would do that with true union ball valves? I just got the mini Maggie Mufflers in.... I see no way a big snail could ever clog the drains, especially all 3 at once, each drain pipe will have their own separate flex pvc pipes to the 3 inlets on the sump. All independent of each other. Two into filter socks, one into the refugium.

I could do as many separate returns as I want I guess. They have to be on the ends though (front and back are viewable sides) and I have to keep in mind the coast to coast on one end. My thought was to put one 1" Sea Swirl (rated at up to 3600 gph) on the opposite end of the overflow (thats where Sea Swirl recommended for the 1st one) and have 2 Vortech 40s at the overflow end. Sea Swirl thought a 2nd Sea Swirl would work on the overflow side. If thats the case do I need 2 Vortech 40s? Would 2 returns be too much flow through the sump? I could plump for a 2nd return on the overflow side, and see how the flow is and if needed add another Sea Swirl.

OK, makes more sense seeing the tank dimensions. I think you'd be fine with the one Sea Swirl a the end of the tank, presumably in the center. I'd go with the 2 MP40's on the overflow side, if budget allows, so you have the option of programming them with your Apex (WXM module needed for this). Not necessary, but you'd really be able to dial in some serious random flow this way. Always fun spending other peoples $$$.

The flow through the sump is managed from the True Union Ball Valve that you'll install on the Output side of your pump. All you need to do is turn the valve down to limit the amount of total flow through the system. The water being pumped from the return pump drives the system, so more flow to the display equal more to drain. Do not try and limit the flow by the drains, this will for sure cause a flood. With the way you are considering plumbing the overflows, I'd only put a valve on the refugium drain - leave the other 2 drains wide open (no valves).

Your plumbing list looks good, sizing wise, as long as you have space to use the size PVC you have listed. I used 2" on the Inlet side of my pump as well but it is large and sometimes hard to manage under a stand. I like that you have 1.5" running from the return up to the Sea Swirl. Just reduce to 1" where you see fit, trying to keep the plumbing as large as it moves up towards the Sea Swirl.

Did Miracles specify if the holes they are drilling would accommodate Sched 80 or regular lightweight bulkheads?

 

[summitwynds]

OK, makes more sense seeing the tank dimensions. I think you'd be fine with the one Sea Swirl a the end of the tank, presumably in the center. I'd go with the 2 MP40's on the overflow side, if budget allows, so you have the option of programming them with your Apex (WXM module needed for this). Not necessary, but you'd really be able to dial in some serious random flow this way. Always fun spending other peoples $$$.

The flow through the sump is managed from the True Union Ball Valve that you'll install on the Output side of your pump. All you need to do is turn the valve down to limit the amount of total flow through the system. The water being pumped from the return pump drives the system, so more flow to the display equal more to drain. Do not try and limit the flow by the drains, this will for sure cause a flood. With the way you are considering plumbing the overflows, I'd only put a valve on the refugium drain - leave the other 2 drains wide open (no valves).

Your plumbing list looks good, sizing wise, as long as you have space to use the size PVC you have listed. I used 2" on the Inlet side of my pump as well but it is large and sometimes hard to manage under a stand. I like that you have 1.5" running from the return up to the Sea Swirl. Just reduce to 1" where you see fit, trying to keep the plumbing as large as it moves up towards the Sea Swirl.

Did Miracles specify if the holes they are drilling would accommodate Sched 80 or regular lightweight bulkheads?

Thanks Drummereef for taking the time to read my thread and offer me advice! I really appreciate it!!

Yes, seeing the tank set up helps, just rotate the layout 180 degrees as the drains will be on the right hand side (from my office) and the sump will be under it as the photo shows. The drains will go to the sump on the right, and the return will be on the left as will the return pump.

Yes, the Sea Swirl will be in the center, and you are doing a FABULOUS job helping me spend my money! I did buy a WXM module. I do have one Vortech 40 W and 2 Vortech 10s (only 1 wireless). I tried to connect the 40 to my WXM and don't think it is updating the firmware on the Vortech. I need to work on figuring the WXM/Vortech out. I think the combo of the SeaSwirl and 2 Vortechs for random flow will be nice.

Ordered 3 True Union Valves from BRS yesterday, one 2" and one 1 1/2" for the pump and one 1" for the drain to the refugium part.

I should have room under the tank, but we all know how that goes. You think you'll have a lot of room until you start getting everything in there. The tank is 58 x 36 and the sump is 36 x 18, so hopefully it will be ok.

Another thought I had on playing it safe with running 3 drains and no emergency drain.... is to use my floats as a warning via the Apex. Presently for my top off I have a float that when it goes "down" it turns the top off ON, then another float lower than that was turned around and remains "up", if the 1st float fails, then #2 drops and turns the top off on. Then an "emergency" horizontal 3rd float at the very top of the sump and if it moves "up" it would shut off the top off if #1 or #2 failed to shut the top off pump off. So, the issue with the 3 drains failing is that the return pump would empty out the sump and run dry and/or overflow the tank. If I set up a Virtual Outlet using float #2 to warn me (email/text) if it gets in the "up" position I could at least turn the pump off to check out the situation. Isn't it important that should a pump turn off there is ample room in the sump for the overflow water, and wouldn't the vice versa be true, that if the 3 drains got clogged there is ample room in the tank for the water in the sump? Obviously you wouldn't want the return pump trying to pump something with no water in it, but overflowing I would think is the biggest concern. At least with an Apex alarm on float #2 it would mean one of 2 issues, either float #1 failed to turn the top off pump on, or the water in the sump is lower than it should be and that all 3 drains are clogged.

Miracles didn't specify Sched 80 or regular lightweight bulkheads? Should I request one over the other? I do need to contact them to make sure the bulkheads in the drain are spaced to accommodate the 2 5/8" Maggie Mufflers on the top of the 1" drain pipes. It looks like the 2 outer drains might need to move in just a little closer to the middle drain.

 

[drummereef]

Miracles didn't specify Sched 80 or regular lightweight bulkheads? Should I request one over the other? I do need to contact them to make sure the bulkheads in the drain are spaced to accommodate the 2 5/8" Maggie Mufflers on the top of the 1" drain pipes. It looks like the 2 outer drains might need to move in just a little closer to the middle drain.

I would definitely contact them about the bulkheads. It would at least give you an idea on the slip/thread bulkhead combinations once you find out. I think, if memory serves, Sched 80 are only available as threaded on the bottom - so you'll have to use a threaded adapter to connect your pvc or flex pvc. Not a big deal, but just another fitting to pick up. They are definitely ALOT more robust so if it's an option (if it were me) I would probably opt for the Sched 80s for their durability.

 

[summitwynds]

I would definitely contact them about the bulkheads. It would at least give you an idea on the slip/thread bulkhead combinations once you find out. I think, if memory serves, Sched 80 are only available as threaded on the bottom - so you'll have to use a threaded adapter to connect your pvc or flex pvc. Not a big deal, but just another fitting to pick up. They are definitely ALOT more robust so if it's an option (if it were me) I would probably opt for the Sched 80s for their durability.

From Miracles: There is relatively little pressure on the bulkheads due to the overflow height, schedule 40 is more than adequate.

Miracles said I have my choice of 1" drains or 1 1/2" drains. Which should I choose? The 3 input fittings on the sump are standard 1" pipe socket/glue fittings. If I went with 1 1/2" drains then I would have to have a reducer somewhere in there, so wouldn't 1" be the way to go?

 

[CRJ]

From Miracles: There is relatively little pressure on the bulkheads due to the overflow height, schedule 40 is more than adequate.

Miracles said I have my choice of 1" drains or 1 1/2" drains. Which should I choose? The 3 input fittings on the sump are standard 1" pipe socket/glue fittings. If I went with 1 1/2" drains then I would have to have a reducer somewhere in there, so wouldn't 1" be the way to go?

yea in that case just go 1". im running a single 1" for my 60 gallon shallow i just ordered with them.


heres a great tool.
http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml

 

[summitwynds]

yea in that case just go 1". im running a single 1" for my 60 gallon shallow i just ordered with them.


heres a great tool.
http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml

Great link - thanks for the advice

 

[averageguys]

Tagging along this is going to be a awesome build.

 

[drummereef]

From Miracles: There is relatively little pressure on the bulkheads due to the overflow height, schedule 40 is more than adequate.

Miracles said I have my choice of 1" drains or 1 1/2" drains. Which should I choose? The 3 input fittings on the sump are standard 1" pipe socket/glue fittings. If I went with 1 1/2" drains then I would have to have a reducer somewhere in there, so wouldn't 1" be the way to go?

I have the regular 1" Sched 40 ABS bulkheads on my 180g - but plumbed the Durso overflows and drains below the bulkheads with 1.5" pvc to maximize flow. I don't have any issues with the 1" bulkheads limiting flow, especially since I run relatively low flow through my sump anyway.

Now that said, I can tell you the 1.5" Sched 40 ABS bulkheads are ALOT more robust than the 1". Neither are as thick and durable as Sched 80 but that's not a big deal if you are comfortable using the ABS. The plastic on the 1.5" is significantly thicker, especially on the bottom where it's needed. There's a seam in the plastic where they are molded. I actually had a 1" bulkhead split on a seam after gluing it which forced me to re-plumb everything from the bulkhead to the sump.

So if I were given the option, for durability and longevity alone, I'd choose the 1.5" over the 1". Either will work and flow-wise you most likely won't notice a difference. But this has been my observations since I've used both sizes for various applications.

 

[summitwynds]

I have the regular 1" Sched 40 ABS bulkheads on my 180g - but plumbed the Durso overflows and drains below the bulkheads with 1.5" pvc to maximize flow. I don't have any issues with the 1" bulkheads limiting flow, especially since I run relatively low flow through my sump anyway.

Now that said, I can tell you the 1.5" Sched 40 ABS bulkheads are ALOT more robust than the 1". Neither are as thick and durable as Sched 80 but that's not a big deal if you are comfortable using the ABS. The plastic on the 1.5" is significantly thicker, especially on the bottom where it's needed. There's a seam in the plastic where they are molded. I actually had a 1" bulkhead split on a seam after gluing it which forced me to re-plumb everything from the bulkhead to the sump.

So if I were given the option, for durability and longevity alone, I'd choose the 1.5" over the 1". Either will work and flow-wise you most likely won't notice a difference. But this has been my observations since I've used both sizes for various applications.

Not sure what the difference between ABS and Sched 80 is. Flex pvc versus the hard pvc?

So if I went with 1.5 bulkheads (assuming slip/slip) for the 3 returns, with 1 1/2" pipes above the bulkheads, then below the bulkhead I would need to put in some sort of reducer for the 1" flex pvc to go to the sump which has 3 1" pipe sockets, correct?

 

[drummereef]

Not sure what the difference between ABS and Sched 80 is. Flex pvc versus the hard pvc?

So if I went with 1.5 bulkheads (assuming slip/slip) for the 3 returns, with 1 1/2" pipes above the bulkheads, then below the bulkhead I would need to put in some sort of reducer for the 1" flex pvc to go to the sump which has 3 1" pipe sockets, correct?

The biggest difference between the ABS and Sched 80 is the Sched 80 requires a larger hole drilled in the glass. So if your tank is drilled for ABS you won't be able to fit a Sched 80. Here's links to both so you can visually see them...

ABS Bulkheads - Slip/Slip
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bulkhead-abs-slip-x-slip-2.html

Sched 80 Bulkheads - Slip/Thread
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bulkhead-schedule-80-slip-x-thread-slip-on-the-flange-head-side-2.html


Hard (rigid) PVC cannot be bent, also known as straight pipe. Flex PVC (spa flex) is PVC that is somewhat flexible and can be bent to accommodate a limited radius turn. For example...

Rigid PVC Pipe
http://www.lowes.com/pd_23830-1814-...pipe&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=pvc+pipe&facetInfo=

Flexible PVC Pipe
http://www.savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=4&ptid=19&pid=36&part=41015



Yes, if you do 1.5" ABS bulkheads and use 1.5" PVC above and below the Bulkheads you'll need to use a 1.5" x 1" reducer bushing and a union. So what you would do is... Glue the reducer bushing into one side of the 1.5" Union. The bushing side will face down towards the sump and would connect to the sump with a short piece of 1" pipe. The top side of the Union would accommodate the 1.5" pipe coming down from the bulkhead.

1.5" Union
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...yword=1+1/2"+union&storeId=10051#.UMNxOuQ0WSo

1.5" x 1" Reducer Bushing
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...+1/2"+x+1"+bushing&storeId=10051#.UMNtTuQ0WSo


The above links are just examples of what you can do. Here's typically where I buy my fittings and pipe...

Rigid PVC Pipe - Lowes (local store)
PVC Fittings - Lowes (local store)
Unions - Home Depot (local store)
Flex PVC - Savko Plumbing (online)
Manifold Valves - Savko Plumbing (online)

 

[summitwynds]

Thanks for the great info Brett! This helps me out a lot! Going with the 1 1/2" bulkheads, holes will be 2 1/2"

Hoping to open up the wall this week. Then electrical and the stand. And then painting the inside of the closet..... the bottom will remain white, and above the stand Im trying to decide..... black, dark ocean blue, or lighter sky blue.

 

[summitwynds]

One side of the wall is open. More wires in there than we thought. That's one thing about a log home.... You have to take advantage of the interior framed walls.

 

[summitwynds]

 

[summitwynds]

Some progress today....

 

[summitwynds]

double post

 

[summitwynds]

Took a trip to the Police Dept this morning...

Took a trip to the Police Dept this morning...

Took a trip to the Police Department this morning....

I've been making purchases for the past few weeks for things that I need for my new tank. One of which is another Vortech 40 - Ordered it from a sponsor here on RC (That Fish Place) that I have dealt with many times in the past, including my current Vortech 40. Also picked up a couple other things that I need for mixing water (heater, Aqueon pump) and to have on hand. Well, everything arrived last Friday EXCEPT for the Vortech 40. I called TFP immediately after opening the box (I was home when FedEx dropped it off). They said they would look into it. I didn't hear back so I called them again that afternoon (by then Im freaking out). They told me they would get back to me on Monday or Tuesday. I didn't hear from them, so I called on Tuesday (left a message with the woman I spoke with) and called again on Wednesday, left another message. Well, she called me back and left me a message Wednesday afternoon, saying the Vortech was in the box and basically there was nothing they could do and I should contact the police. So I did.

I don't know what else I can do.... any suggestions??

What the H-double L happened to my Vortech??? Could it have been an inside job, with someone at TFP working with someone that works at FedEx?? How would someone know that the Vortech was the only thing worth taking? The police at this point are going to look into it. I sure hope they get an answer! :uhoh3:

 

[Steveb]

I would contact my credit card company and dispute it, referencing the police report.

I know its weird but I have taken to setting up video tape when opening shipping boxes. Its sad but one can never be to careful these days.

 

[summitwynds]

I would contact my credit card company and dispute it, referencing the police report.

I know its weird but I have taken to setting up video tape when opening shipping boxes. Its sad but one can never be to careful these days.

I used my debit card. And I went to the bank before the police dept. I will be signing an affidavit at the bank. I thought about your idea of video taping AFTER it happened and how I wished I had done that. Never had this happen before. In the future I will do that, and use my American Express instead of a debit card, especially for big ticket items like Vortechs. Lets just hope the police get to the bottom of this!