My Ultimate Multi Mantis System(s)

[Kharn]

Kharn what do you do to keep the buildup of crud from accumulating in your DSB tanks?

Nothing =)

As I said earlier, these are extremely clean animals and whilst in the wild they have been observed storing food within there burrows, I have yet to witness it, if food is not completely consumed, its discarded out of the burrow almost in like a reverse strike method, it holds the dead food, lifts it up, then throws it away by striking the water column.

I'm still waiting for a "Nuke" to happen but I have been made confident by various members on here (inc Dr.Caldwell) that ultra deep sand beds (30cm+ deep) that house large spearers don't nuke or become toxic waste lands.

So it was a concern that plagued my mind originally back in October last year when I first started but after repeatedly asking the question I got the same answers back, not going to be a problem.

I have often found uneaten food above the spearers burrows or a little further away in the tank, if they were storing food then they would store food not dump it up top for me to remove it but, I believe this is in direct relation to the animals sheer intelligence, as I said in the wild they often horde food not eaten, in aquariums they don't....perhaps they KNOW that in this strange clear box, they get fed and hence have no need to horde any food not eaten as it will be just be a waste of space and foul water, I dunno but it's interesting nonetheless.

Cheers

EDIT: Also as far as the smashers go, there waste tends to be situated around/in the cavity/den, when things get to messy inside I will often see them eaither dumping food out of the cavity or they use there swimmers to fan inside the burrow sending lots of fine debris flying out of the cavity, this motion helps to keep there cavity clean too, it's distinctive to see, suddenly there is also this debris coming out from the crack in a rock and its the smasher 'spring' cleaning =D

 

[Jacwil]

Gotcha....

Although your system is all in one big rack, each tank is independent from one another yes? My point is even though your DSB inhabitants are clean, theres no risk of crud from other tanks getting into them correct?

 

[Kharn]

Gotcha....

Although your system is all in one big rack, each tank is independent from one another yes? My point is even though your DSB inhabitants are clean, theres no risk of crud from other tanks getting into them correct?

My systems is actually 3 'systems' hence the whole STAND A, B & C each stand is its own systems and the tanks on it are connected to each other, anything from the above tanks (small enough to fit through the bulkhead guards) can float down to the tank(s) below it in that stand.

I have never had a risk of crud for any tanks really...I am very diligent on my own maintenance and any uneaten food is swiftly removed, mostly because it's easy to do =)

Cheers

 

[Ehudd]

How much do it cost roughly to set up? Im looking at doing the same. I've now got 5 and 2 more coming. Think it would be easier than seperated them in tubs for now.

 

[Kharn]

Tanks = $4000

Substrate = $3000 (that is just for STAND C, not including the substrate costs for STAND A & B, those have no Aragonite sand).

Lighting = $1000

3x FX5's = around $1200-$1500

Stands were free as I built it all.

My budget was around $10,000 but I ended up going well above that not too mention this is all just setup costs not actual stocking costs (corals) when 1 GOOD Ric down here can cost $200-$400 and I want around 30 well....that is already $6000-$12000 for just mushies....

All in all I predict when I am totally finished (there is filter upgrades and light upgrades inc + all the coral live stock), it will be more around $20,000 - $30,000.

Substrate & Live Rock were severley overlooked costs on my end so I had to dig deep to get what I wanted and needed in that department, very hard (mentally) to spend thousands on .... sand.

Hope this gives an idea and it's still pritty rough idea there are other costs hence the whole $20,000-$30,000 total cost.

 

[Ehudd]

Lucky for me im a fencing contractor and earn the doe!
Seems abit extreme, I think I can beat that price.

 

[Kharn]

Lucky for me im a fencing contractor and earn the doe!
Seems abit extreme, I think I can beat that price.

It can EASILY be done cheaper, I just went the wrong route with some things mostly due to being lazy and wanting the items THEN AND THERE.

If there is one thing I would recommend it would be the use of skimmer(s) and other equipment normally in a sump so in effect for me, a sump per stand, which is underway, the only reason I went with FX5's is because of the great success I have had with them.

Nitrate factories I dunno...I put mine through a GREAT test when I had my original tank, I would dump feed the tank whilst the FX5 was on (dump feed for corals, was too lazy to do each individual polyp -_-) and after about 8-10months of the canister running I pulled the tank down.

Not once was the canister cleaned (on purpose) not once did parameters go crazy and 'nuke' which essentially sold me on the idea of using them as primary filtration.

I think people are very paranoid in this hobby and instantly demonize things that shouldn't be so cruelly judged (canister filters for marine tanks, is one example).

They say you must clean them essentially once a week if not more (twice - 3times a week) in order to prevent them becoming nitrate factories but after 10months of the lid never even being opened since starting, I saw NO changes in chemical levels no nitrate rises nothing....again this is what sold me on them.

 

[Kharn]

Bit of an Update....

I think the Juggernaut is undergoing his second molt in my care, the first one took him over 24hours to get the whole old skin off him and it was in very tight uncomfortable container...was one of them plastic bug containers lined on the inside with egg crate and a large piece of PVC in it (which took up all the room basically).

Still anything can happen during a molt so I have my fingers crossed that he comes out of it, fine =D.

He has done a lot of excavation over the past few days, originally his cave entrance was VERY large I could fit my head into it, but now its completely sealed over with coral rubble.

I shall try and find a Pre Excavation shot so I can show you all the difference between then and now (then being 2days ago).

 

[Steve C]

3x FX5's = around $1200-$1500!!!!!!

That's one good thing about living in the uk. I paid £75 each for mine. Don't get me wrong, I'd still pay that if I could live in OZ. Out of interest how much would a 5kg bag of Aragonite sand cost you?

 

[Steve C]

Double post.

 

[Kharn]

3x FX5's = around $1200-$1500!!!!!!

That's one good thing about living in the uk. I paid £75 each for mine. Don't get me wrong, I'd still pay that if I could live in OZ. Out of interest how much would a 5kg bag of Aragonite sand cost you?

Aragonite sand is Expensive as far as 5kg's I'd say around $15 perhaps more likely $19.95 lol.

(I can't remember exactly but I think it was $60-$70 for 20kg's so I am working off that).

It's abnormally expensive down here considering the level of life on our door step, its easy to assume its "open" to us (Australians) there are far more things on our ban lists then others I think the mere fact that we cannot import / export coral is a huge factor alone coupled with the fact that a lot of what we have cannot be kept either, whether its illegal or whether we just don't get a "shot at purchase" (it's shipped overseas straight up, leaving what's left at extraordinary prices).

Like I said earlier Ric's can go for hundreds of dollars down here (R.Yuma)...and they pale in comparison to the 'R.florida' as far as colors go.

 

[Jacwil]

How long did u run the marine tank in past with just canister filter?

 

[Kharn]

How long did u run the marine tank in past with just canister filter?

It wasn't long considering the amount of time most marine tanks go for and considering the depth of the substrate (was about 50%water : 50%substrate) so the substrate wasn't even 'seeded' or mature...

7months I would say. No fails (that is with HOB Overflow too LifeReef FTW! still no fails in anything yet =D canister/overflow wise).

 

[Jacwil]

Gotcha...it'll be interesting to see how this is going in a year but I'm totally pulling for ya!

:beer:

 

[TundraGuy]

Its funny that you talk about how demonized canisters are in the salt water hobby. The truth is every public aquarium/zoo I have been to uses them. Most large systems I have worked on (5000+ gallons) use large sand bed canisters to remove particulates from the water. Everything in perspective I would only use canisters for things like GFO, Carbon, and what not as reactors on SPS systems. But on swim tanks canisters are the bomb. I think you will find adding a properly sized PS on your systems will show a big difference in clarity. One thing I would do for my clients back when I did tanks for a living was to take a clean white piece of paper and draw lines with a yellow highlighter in various darkness. This sheet was taped to the tank so you could see the lines the long way through the tank. From here add the skimmer or carbon reactor and tell the customer to look at it every day and call me once all of the highlighted lines could be seen. This is just a visual tool to show people the difference in water clarity a piece of equipment is giving you. Often times our little glass boxes lose the crystal clear waters of the open ocean without us noticing, by adding a new filtering apparatus and showing the clarity is the best way to justify to someone the need of different filtering equipments.

Kharn on your stands I still think you’d benefit from combining the stand via a sump. I also think it would be the most cost effective way to run them. I think you’re getting some benefits from your set ups that you may be unaware of, that could be used to benefit the other stands. For instance having them truly deep sand beds you are getting anaerobic zones in the bed these zones do two things very well. One is to reduce nitrate the other is to break down the aragonite and dosing these elements back into the water however slight or great this will be beneficial to the corals and tanks with lights above them. The tanks you have with macro in them also have a “waste” uptake ability again however slight or great that could be shared with the other tanks. Certain types of macro have been show to release agents into the water that can kill other forms of algae for instance I have noted on multiple different occasions caulerpa Mexicana is good at fighting deep red Cyano blooms. I have used this to fight and help eradicate it from tanks with the cyano. I can’t prove it but have seen it enough times to hypothesis the caulerpa has a reaction to the cyano that cases the caulerpa to release something into the water. I make this leap based on the cyano in other tanks connected to the “fuge” housing the caulerpa. I also still think with these systems combined the total water volume being shared can and will add to the stability of the total system. With one big good skimmer you could employ the use of Ozone. I find ozone used correctly will act as a water polisher raise the redox of the water and kill anything going through the protein skimmer making it a very effective safe guard against unwanted nuisance algae and free swimming parasites like ick (not a problem with mantis but still of note).

Your use of canisters is showing a lot of people in this hobby that they do have viable uses in this hobby. Your proving that there is no one right way to set up a system rather on correct set ups for the owners of the tanks.

 

[Jacwil]

Tundra, when you saw decreases in cyano from adding a refugium, had you made any additional adjustments i.e. decreased feedings, lighting schedule adjustment or increased flow?

 

[TundraGuy]

Not adding a “fuge” or any other water volume, just adding the Mexicana to a tank that is connected to the system. Or just add it to the main tank if there aren’t any herbivores. Takes about a day to start by day 4 you’ll see the cyano start to go bye bye.

But of course there are other ways to do this same thing but the truth be told I like to go natural for all my cures and fixes.

 

[Kharn]

I am yet to experience any form of cloudy water / algae outbreaks....

Kind of surprising really welll yes and no I knew what to expect kind of since I had already had my 4footer running in the same manner albeit with much brighter lighting.

Even back then I had no cloudy water, it's always been CRYSTAL clear what your seeing in the videos is the reflection of the sandbed because its pure white it acts like a mirror for light and since I am not a photo wizz...well I am still learning how to get around it.

So far I came up with a good idea to really minimize its brightnes, I have a sheet of eggcrate with fly screen wrapped ONCE around it (so you can still see through it very easily) this darkens the light reflection of the sand bed but I can get (and plan to) better things like a sheet of dark film cut to size would be perfect!

I am still thinking on the whole 1 sump vs 3 sump idea the good news is my planned stock (corals) aren't all that delicate (being corallimorphs) and considering I have some in there now flourishing =) well the whole upgrade side of things isn't exactly needed RITE NOW ZOMFG! lol but, it WILL happen.

 

[Kharn]

There has been evidence (and more) of The Juggernaut undergoing a molt, today I found shell remains out in the open, his old 'telson/tail/butt' along with his old carapace/frontal portion topside...



However the best thing that I saw was him, :thumbsup: things looked to of gone fine so far, he is poking out of the back of all the rubble/his den curiously watching.

More to come

 

[Kharn]

A few videos that I made of recent live feedings featuring Rocky, Morgoth (twice) & The Leviathan, again 1080p HD capable.

The Leviathan Lysiosquillina maculata
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Oq6UcxM5Iss" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is what he left of this fish, like I have said previously, he could of easily buried this but didn't, he removed it from his burrow and placed it on the surface, then I removed it.



Rocky Gonodactylaceus graphurus
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9XO9h5qMa0Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Morgoth Lysiosquillina sulcata
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uBWLzu435pE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EeqGe1WnTtQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

More to come