My Ultimate Multi Mantis System(s)

[DesktopReefer]

Man your system is epic! I'm going to enjoy reading through your thread. Sorry about your recent loss but don't be down you are definitely providing your mantis with great care and enclosures!

 

[Kharn]

Slight update along with some new footage of the spearers.

Today was a good sign for the 'L.colemani', not only has the 'shell rot' seemed to of stopped (won't go away until molt(s)) but the spearer now seems to be taking a liking to the sand within it's compartment as it has started to dig, although very slowly...just like Morgoth originally.


I also managed to go netting a bit today and captured a dozen or 2 fish for my spearers this is just some of them as I kept the larger ones in compartments of STAND C not occupied by a spearer (to keep them away from the smaller squillids in the Live Food tank, should they get curious...).


Some footage for this evening after hauling in those fish this arvo

1080p HD capability

MORGOTH - L.sulcata
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OjQ7cOpc3Ys" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

THE LEVIATHAN - L.maculata
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JTYIOIO6-HU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

More to come

 

[TundraGuy]

I am all about thous new sumps! Two thumbs up.

 

[Kharn]

I am all about thous new sumps! Two thumbs up.

Do you see any flaws ?

I am concerned because the display tanks are only connected via poly bulk heads (not overflows) so they are very limited in how much water can flow through them, the FX5's currently in use are only operating at 1/3 output as full output just overflows the first tank due to the 32mm bulk head not being able to take the full flow.

However it might just be a simple thing like setting the return pump in the sump and the new pump that will be in the bottom of the display tank stand linking to the top tank of the display tank stand, to a lower setting like I did with the FX5's.

I cannot have the sump and it's return pump as the primary source of overall system flow, only because in order to do this I would need to have the HOB overflow attaching the display stand and sump stand in the bottom tank of the display stand...and it would hang over the rear to low to have a sump below it...so a second pump is needed in the bottom display tank, linking it to the top display tank, fairly simple. I just plan to match the 2 pumps (one in sump & one in bottom display tank).

I really want to know about flaws or potential areas of failure...

 

[TundraGuy]

Well kind of. The water is being fed from the top tank. Can you instead have a hang on overflow feed the lower sump, have this lower sump pump the water up to the top filter tank and build this with a return to the upper tank? This way your not trying to fight the water levels to the lower tank. I also think this way the system is less complex. Hope that helps even though it takes you a different direction with your set up.

 

[TundraGuy]

The other idea would be to add hang on overflows to the top two sections to pick up the extra water volume from a stronger filter return. But i still think keeping the water going down to the sump from the bottom tank. How tall is the lower tank and is it possible to feed a sump from it?

 

[TundraGuy]

You should be able to run higher water levels in all your tanks including the lower one if you feed it to your sump without the fear of power failures overflowing the lower tank.

 

[Kharn]

I'm a bit confused by your description...

 

[TundraGuy]

I need to draw it out for you but basically what i would do is have the sump feed from the same location that your fx5 draws from. Then this sump pumps water up to the upper filter tank you'll have behind the display tanks. The drain from this tank will go to where you current fx5 return is.

On a side note if you want more turnover throughout the system you'll need to do one of two things add hang on overflows to offset the flow from your current drain pipes. Or brake down one tank (shelf) at a time house the inhabitants temporarily and drill a second hole then add overflow partitions and re-add it back into the stand.

In your drawing it looks like your feeding both the back sumps from top two display tanks. I don't see this working as well as just having all the water going in one big circle through the system. Problem is if the return pump for the sump stops but the fx5 drawing from the bottom tank continues to feed the top tank what will keep the overflow up there from syphoning the water into the sump drawing the lower tank down to the bottom of the fx5 strainer? If this happened you may find a tank without water a sump overflowing and a burned out fx5. That is the reason to go with the sumps being feed from the lowest level and feed to the highest level.

 

[Kharn]

I need to draw it out for you but basically what i would do is have the sump feed from the same location that your fx5 draws from. Then this sump pumps water up to the upper filter tank you'll have behind the display tanks. The drain from this tank will go to where you current fx5 return is.

On a side note if you want more turnover throughout the system you'll need to do one of two things add hang on overflows to offset the flow from your current drain pipes. Or brake down one tank (shelf) at a time house the inhabitants temporarily and drill a second hole then add overflow partitions and re-add it back into the stand.

In your drawing it looks like your feeding both the back sumps from top two display tanks. I don't see this working as well as just having all the water going in one big circle through the system. Problem is if the return pump for the sump stops but the fx5 drawing from the bottom tank continues to feed the top tank what will keep the overflow up there from syphoning the water into the sump drawing the lower tank down to the bottom of the fx5 strainer? If this happened you may find a tank without water a sump overflowing and a burned out fx5. That is the reason to go with the sumps being feed from the lowest level and feed to the highest level.

I should of noted that these sumps are replacing the FX5's, once the sumps are in place the FX5's will be removed, I will replace the FX5 with a typical pump, connecting bottom display tank, to top display tank.

 

[Kharn]

I need to draw it out for you but basically what i would do is have the sump feed from the same location that your fx5 draws from. Then this sump pumps water up to the upper filter tank you'll have behind the display tanks. The drain from this tank will go to where you current fx5 return is.

On a side note if you want more turnover throughout the system you'll need to do one of two things add hang on overflows to offset the flow from your current drain pipes. Or brake down one tank (shelf) at a time house the inhabitants temporarily and drill a second hole then add overflow partitions and re-add it back into the stand.

In your drawing it looks like your feeding both the back sumps from top two display tanks. I don't see this working as well as just having all the water going in one big circle through the system. Problem is if the return pump for the sump stops but the fx5 drawing from the bottom tank continues to feed the top tank what will keep the overflow up there from syphoning the water into the sump drawing the lower tank down to the bottom of the fx5 strainer? If this happened you may find a tank without water a sump overflowing and a burned out fx5. That is the reason to go with the sumps being feed from the lowest level and feed to the highest level.

Originally I thought about adding HOB Overflows (LifeReef) in place of the Poly Pipe to allow more flow overall, however i kept coming up with new ideas....

As for the syphon effect that happens when the power goes out...it happens now...Because the FX5's INTAKE is in the Bottom Tank and it's OUTPUT is in the Top Tank...when the power goes out/FX5's stop, they turn reverse and start to suck water out of the top tank.

However I found a simply way around this which is what I planned on doing in the long run with these new sump pump OUTPUT pipe/hose...I drilled a hole through it JUST above the surface, this prevents the syphon/sucking action from happening because as soon as it sucks air, it breaks the "grip".

One thing about FX5's is that once every 24hrs they switch off for 1-2mins and purge all the air inside the canister before restarting again, all automatically. So I knew that once every 24hours I COULD of had a potential overflow of the bottom tank during canister shutoff, drilling those holes in the OUPUT hose totally fixed/solved this problem.

Although in the picture it looks like the Sump INPUT (water from Display into Top Sump) is in the top tank, this will remain the same, however the Bottom Sump (full refugium) OUTPUT will actually more likely be in the Bottom Display Tank.

Even in this situation I will still need a 2nd pump inside the Display to pump water from the Bottom Display Tank up to the Top Display Tank...The Bottom Sump Tank is going to be to High/Tall for a HOB overflow to be used to attach it to the Bottom Display Tank...

So what happens if the Pump in the bottom sump 'fails' or 'stops'...the pump in the Display Bottom Tank is still active, pumping water up to the Display Top Tank where the Overflow is connected to the sump, the Overflow continues to take in water, and inevitably floods the bottom sump tank, overflowing it due to the pump not being active....

FAIL!

What happens if the Display Stand Bottom Tank pump fails but the sumps pump continues to work, the Stand no longer has flow and comes to a pause, however the Top Tank with the Overflow in it connected it to the sump, continues to suck water into the sumps, the sumps pump still working continues to pump water back into the Display Bottom Tank and inevitably due to the Display Stand not taking water up to the Top Tank...the top tank drains to a point where the overflow can no longer suck water...the sump pump continues to push water out of the sumps until it burns out, and the bottom tank of the Display stand overflows....

FAIL!

I foresaw the fact of relying upon 2 pumps was a flaw, since if 1 goes and 1 doesn't something will overflow....whilst if there is just 1 pump and it fails, everything just comes to a stand still....back to the drawing board...

P.S. I really don't wanna drill these tanks again...if I have to do something like overflow additions, it's going to be HOB, and Jeff @ LifeReef will be loving it xD....

 

[Kharn]

I do have some good news

My Identification of stomatopods is getting better I successfully I.D.'d my L.colemani as exactly that...L.colemani and for the facts that I stated earlier, the eyes being wider apart and the presence of a pair of 'horns/points/teeth' on the Rostral plate.

However I am somewhat a little more paranoid (now knowing it is an L.colemani...) this species is cold water species, preferring the 15C-20C range...something I can not really provide rite now...it is in STAND B so there are others I must think of to...at best I have lowered the Room temperature to 16-17degrees however if I must I might start adding small blocks of ice in bags to get the temp down more and see how it reacts (and more importantly the others in the stand).

Beyond this everything should be perfect for it...I'm still keeping it's half of the tank dark which is easy due to the divider being black, the rear wall being black, and the tanks side being black along with now a lid being black...this pushes the urgency of STAND D to be started...

 

[Kharn]

have the sump feed from the same location that your fx5 draws from.

Bottom Display Tank

Then this sump pumps water up to the upper filter tank you'll have behind the display tanks. The drain from this tank will go to where you current fx5 return is.

Top Display Tank

This is the drawing I made depicting what I think you might of been talking about.



Not sure if this is what you were talking about ?

2 things I don't like about this (although overall it looks good), is that the Bottom Sump would need to be small since from the ground level to the top of the Bottom Display Tank rim, is only 700mm, since this is the lowest tank it would also be likely to the one that takes on that little bit of water on power outs.

The other thing I don't like is the height of the Top Sump Tank, in order for it to flow/drain into the Top Display tank it would be over 1.6mtrs off the ground...and considering I want this to be the biggest of the 2 tanks...tall thin frame with most of the weight up top is a little nerve wracking albeit somewhat a pain for maintenance.

EDIT: 1 good thing I can do this for STAND C and still have a deep/large Bottom Sump due to the Bottom Display tank being quite tall (over a foot more then the rest so about 1.1-1.2mtrs ground to tip of rim).

 

[TundraGuy]

Yep thats what i was going for in your last drawing. If you could drill the lower tank and the lower sump you can run a direct line one from the other instead of using an overflow. To keep the water level in the lower display tank all you'd need to do is add a partition in the sump so the water from the display overflows only inside the sump. How high off the ground is the lower display and can you make the filter stand hold the sump lower to the ground this would allow for a larger sump.

I went back in this thread to find the pix of the stands but all the pix in the first few pages are gone! grrrr. Such a good thread to b missing the pix.

Stand A and B are touching or is it stand B and C. Grrrrr i knew i should have saved the pix. Anyhow along time ago we talked about the idea of combining the stands how about just the two that are touching with one long sump?

 

[Kharn]

Yep thats what i was going for in your last drawing. If you could drill the lower tank and the lower sump you can run a direct line one from the other instead of using an overflow. To keep the water level in the lower display tank all you'd need to do is add a partition in the sump so the water from the display overflows only inside the sump. How high off the ground is the lower display and can you make the filter stand hold the sump lower to the ground this would allow for a larger sump.

I went back in this thread to find the pix of the stands but all the pix in the first few pages are gone! grrrr. Such a good thread to b missing the pix.

Stand A and B are touching or is it stand B and C. Grrrrr i knew i should have saved the pix. Anyhow along time ago we talked about the idea of combining the stands how about just the two that are touching with one long sump?

Here are some pics detailing certain dimensions that I have to work within...

Before I show the pics detailing the dimensions there is another pic detailing why I cannot do what you suggest by connecting the STANDS with 2 larger sumps rather then have them separate with 4 sumps (2 each), in order to have the Top Sump up high and be able to drain into the Top Display Tanks it needs to sit higher, this will prevent it...A steel beam that runs across the rooms ceiling...


Ground to Bottom of Bottom Display Tank


Ground to Top of Bottom Display Tank


Ground to Top of Top Display Tank


Wall to back of Display Stand

 

[Adetia]

Since I just had to deal with this for Hurricane Sandy, what are your plans for loss of power?

 

[Jacwil]

As long as he leaves room in sump #1 and has a siphon block in the scary HOB overflow, he should be ok if power is lost.

 

[Kharn]

As I said previously I really do not want to drill these tanks...not until I move (if I do) or rebuild I will then put all what I have learned into the new tanks etc.

Here is something that makes me nervous about the HOB overflows, the outer box dimensions "Outer box: 5inch wide x 3 1/8inch thick x 9inch tall", from the ground to the Top of the Bottom Display tank is only 700mm, take 9inchs from that and it's only around 470mm... from the Ground to the Bottom of the HOB Overflow, hanging over the Top of the Bottom Display Tank...

This was the primary reason to have the HOB Overflow in the top tank and the return in the bottom tank...even though we know it won't work now...

 

[Kharn]

Back syphoning is the least of my worries and I have more then enough faith in LifeReef HOB overflows, they are the absolute best! I have been using one for over a year and it has never failed...I'm even using it as a media storage area (bag of carbon) now and it still won't clog/loose suction, really reliable, I have tried to fault it many times, cause overflowing etc. impossible unless you remove the syphon hose and that is just....well stupid but also not "like lifting a feather" you need to pull against the suction, so it is an awesome product, I love it more then other things simply because it can last forever! No electronics, failures etc.

 

[TundraGuy]

Agreed a well made overflow with a U tube with the correct flow will be as safe as any drilled overflow will be. What a I am thinking is using an overflow box in the display that feeds to a box built into the sump with a piece that can slide up/down that can be locked in place to set the water level. By building this in this way moving the partition in sump you will set the height of the water in the display. Now here is the thing about doing this from the bottom tank if you’re using a 1.5” U tube you can passively feed around 700 to 900 gph. This would be with the tanks lip to lip at the same level. Now mind you are going to keep the level in the sump lower than the display with separated partitions with their own lower water levels with the lowest being the Pump/return section. I think the design for the in sump side of the overflow is the most critical part to making this flow correctly.

Kharn If I was there right now I would be building this with you as you read this. But as it is I will not be on that side of the world for about a year. Yes I am in the process of planning a visit to Brisbane.