My zoanthids suck lately. Advice please?

[LittleBee]

My zoas have been being a pain in the *** for a few weeks now. Let me elaborate on how. For some unknown reason the ones that do open don't open fully like they used to and some just plain won't open. All my parameters are in check. Ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5. Temp is 77. I also have green Birdsnest which is fine and candy canes that are fine. I have a n aquaclear 70 filter with just rubble and a sponge that gets cleaned regularly. Also have a koralia 240. I am running a 24-36in marineland reef capable led fixture that I used to have on my 29g. Idk what the problem is. Everything was growing at a good pace and looked happy as can be and now they look like crap. My magician palys look good tho.. No pests. I've inspected all the zoas for hours and having seen a thing day or night and I even dipped them and still not opening. Im at my witts end. Sometimes the zoas will open during the night with the moonlights on but not during the day.. Should I be adding some London supplement to the tank? Are they. It getting enough nutrients?

 

[yman32]

Furan-2 dip all the way! google it for full instructions or pm me if you cant find it

 

[LittleBee]

What about if they are attached to the rocks? Do I have to dip that entire rock?

 

[A. Grandis]

I'll leave here what would be the two steps I would do in your case:
1) I would remove that substrate little by little while doing partial water changes.
2) I would change the fixture guarantee!! I don't think you're getting enough light.
Perhaps a T5 system? Please search on that. Slowly adapting the system to the new light.

It could be that you could have infections going on and some nutrient problems too, but I would follow the steps carefully to be able to solve the problem.
I don't trust that substrate at all for closed systems!! It probably have heavy metals or something similar affecting the water chemistry and you just can't test for what you don't know about.

Good luck!

Grandis.

 

[G4546]

I see what Grandis means by the substrate. I've seen very similar substrate that is magnetic . I'd also test your PO4, it looks that you might have a bit more than you desire. As well to these small steps, I'd remove your sponge and 'rubble' from your HOB filter. All that is doing is creating a compost for your aquarium and allowing more poo to be caught trapped and to rot. Those would be my first steps. Out of curiosity I would put your cleaning magnet to the substrate, if it's not, hey atleast you're not one who has this sand Then, test PO4 and work on 'cleaning' up the system of the compost. I would be willing to bet you will see an improvement after Wish you the best and keep us updated! We want to see those zoos open back up!

 

[LittleBee]

It's supposed to be regular black sand. Same stuff I have in my 93g you think it just has too much junk in it and it's leaching it back out into the system? The sponge is just to catch extra detritus and I clean it once a week. If I remove it how will the detritus be removed? Not trying to say your all wrong, I'm just trying to understand better that's all. I thought the filter would be a good spot for extra rock that I can't fit in the tank. I previously had this same exact light on my 29g and had softies,sps, Lps and even anemones successfully with it. You really think I should go back to t5's? Not at all trying to be difficult, just trying to put everything on the table.

 

[LittleBee]

Okay just got done doing a water change and sucking out some sand. Didn't get very much out bc it is so fine. I think I'm gonna have to scoop it out bc the water comes out faster than the sand and I don't want to be emptying the tank, its only ten gallons lol but the sand for the most part is nice and clean now I do have a couple extra bags of the sand so I took a quick picture so you guys can see exactally what type it is. Also I tried touching the magnetic glass cleaner to the sand and some of it stuck.. None stuck to the half that stays in the water but the other half of the magnet I put in the water just to see and some sand stuck to it. It didn't lift it off the sandbed but I touched the magnet to the sand just a bit and only in two spots did sand stick to it so idk what the means.. I also took a picture of that. Took the rubble out of the HOB filter also and made sure the sponge was clean which it was bc i just did a water change Monday. Anyways hopefully the zoas perk up. I woke up a couple times last night and they were open by the way. I snapped a couple pics from when I woke up also so I'll be sure to post those and for now I'm gonna go read up on my brand of sand and see what others have expirienced with it.

Zoas from last night wanting to open under just moonlights(turned on white to snap the pics)

Magfloat dry peice under water

Two sections that the sand stuck to

Brand of sand and back label

 

[LittleBee]

Okay just got done doing a water change and sucking out some sand. Didn't get very much out bc it is so fine. I think I'm gonna have to scoop it out bc the water comes out faster than the sand and I don't want to be emptying the tank, its only ten gallons lol but the sand for the most part is nice and clean now I do have a couple extra bags of the sand so I took a quick picture so you guys can see exactally what type it is. Also I tried touching the magnetic glass cleaner to the sand and some of it stuck.. None stuck to the half that stays in the water but the other half of the magnet I put in the water just to see and some sand stuck to it. It didn't lift it off the sandbed but I touched the magnet to the sand just a bit and only in two spots did sand stick to it so idk what the means.. I also took a picture of that. Took the rubble out of the HOB filter also and made sure the sponge was clean which it was bc i just did a water change Monday. Anyways hopefully the zoas perk up. I woke up a couple times last night and they were open by the way. I snapped a couple pics from when I woke up also so I'll be sure to post those and for now I'm gonna go read up on my brand of sand and see what others have expirienced with it.

Zoas from last night wanting to open under just moonlights(turned on white to snap the pics)

Magfloat dry peice under water

Two sections that the sand stuck to

Brand of sand and back label

 

[LittleBee]

Double post sorry

 

[agruetz]

I am voting for lighting however. I have grown some zoa's under some pretty poor compact florescent lights that were in my sump. Did not know they were even down there. However mine seem to be doing well under my AI Sol Blue's @ 80% however any anything under 70% they were a bit mad I am also using that over an 18 in deep cube. So not sure how the marine land one rate but hopefully this gives you an idea of the lighting I am using.

 

[LittleBee]

Idk its just hard for me to believe that this light is not strong enough. I mean it grew this.

So I know it is capable of growing a variety of coral. Plus ideally don't have the money to spend on a new light fixture and don't want to get a new one if I don't need to.

 

[agruetz]

Are those still in the tank with the same light, as I think I would have to agree with you on this then. Are these newer zoa's? ie recently added to the tank maybe from a tank that had less light? Any chance of something like copper etc..? Also I see nitrate level's are about 5 ppm what are the phosphate levels? Also if you have it you may spot feed them with something maybe that would help perk them up.

 

[A. Grandis]

All the Marineland fixtures I've seen at my LPS aren't good as I wish they would be intensity wise.
You could have a better fixture than the ones I've seen, so...

There are many types of DIY and other LED fixtures and personally I still like the way light is distributed from the T5 fixtures better. That's just me. I also like the set combination of spectrum from the T5 tubes because you know exactly what you want to fit on your tank. That doesn't mean that LEDs wouldn't grow corals, zoas and anemones. Many of the friends here at this forum have very nice set ups with live corals and so on. It's proven that LEDs are one of the options to keep corals in a good shape. There are many ways to set the spectrum for most of the LEDs, so if you find a good balance it works great in many cases.

If you've decided you won't want the substrate anymore you can remove it very slowly during partial water changes. Just do your regular water changes normally but remove a bit of substrate here and there while doing it. If you remove all of it, or too much at once, you could have a bit of trouble and the small tank can get worse because you'll be affecting great part of the the natural filtration system.

If you really want to substitute the substrate I would suggest an aragonite based substrate. You don't need a DSB, just an inch to cover the bottom to make it look nice.

You'll probably find that the zoas will begin to come back to their original beauty after some of that substrate is gone!!!

I would also very very carefully remove the substrate and sponge from the filter and replace for ceramic rings, if anything. Try to keep the temperature around 78/79°F. I believe that would work better too.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Grandis.

 

[LittleBee]

Thanks guys for the helpful words. Those zoas I no longer have. But I am using the same exact light on this current tank. Some of the zoas are new and some aren't. For some reason my magician palys(which are newer) are happy as can be and never close. But my tubbs blues and other orange zoas never want to open. They aren't melting tho so that's a good sign.

I guess I'm confused at how removing some of the substrate will help the zoas? Could you explain that a little more for me? I am soon to be getting my phosphates tested. Just have to make it out to my lfs for that since that's the only test I don't own. Don't think copper is an issue. Nothin like that has ever been near the tank. You guys are right though, the only logical answer at this point is the lighting... The fixture is about 2 here old so maybe it's not as bright as before? Could that be possible? Maybe I should convince my hubby to let me use the credit card for a new light.. See I love the look of t5s but don't want to keep buying bulbs.. That's where LEDs make more sense to me but they are so darn expensive from the get go. If I went led I'd either get an AI nano or two par38 bulbs. I'm not much of a DIY person. Sorry just thinking out loud partially and rambling.. I'm just stumped. My candy cane,Duncan's, Birdsnest and green monti are all great. It's just the zoas. And if something in the tank was wrong then wouldn't it affect all the corals and not just the zoas? That's why I thought it was a pest but I can't find a darn thing for the life of me. No nudis,spiders or pox. I do have asteria stars but they stay clear of the zoas and I pick most of them out anyways just in case bc I have seen them before attack a polyp here and there. Ugh..idk guys..

 

[A. Grandis]

Most of the time melting would be bacterial/fungus problems.
No melting, no Pox, not a big deal!!

Explaining more about the substrate...
The idea is to remove every single grain from the system , but do it slowly, so you don't mess with the bacterial population. You could try to remove a quarter of the substrate you have every week and in a month everything would be out. Some people just remove the whole substrate at once, but that's not a good idea.

I'm not sure if LEDs loose their brightness after a year of two. I wouldn't hope/think so. It would be more expensive than T5s, having to change them all at once every year. LOL!!! People buy LEDs because they don't need to be changed, I guess.
Yes, LEDs are too expensive from the get go. I personally don't mind having to change bulbs once a year. I can try new combinations and it's working great for many many years. For a 10gal. would be so easy comparing to bigger systems.
Again, please don't get too exited in changing your ideals because of what I like.
Please search the pros and cons about the 2 types and look for all the available fixtures (LEDs and T5s) to you tank size before buying anything. It could be that the problem is just that substrate. Remember that many people have LEDs with the results they love.

Give more time to this thread and you'll see people telling you how good their LEDs are.

It comes down to personal taste and getting the right combination to the system you've got. Perhaps after the substrate is gone things will come back to normal and the zoas will look great. Give it some time then... Plan to keep your LEDs for now and do one step at a time.
Changing too many things at once could make it worse anyway!!!

Yeah, keep the asterias out for good!! :thumbsup:

Hope that helps.
Grandis.

 

[spankdog]

Your water may be too clean. My nitrates and phosphates were at 0 and my Zoas were not doing well at all. I started feeding more and after a few days everything started looking better.

 

[A. Grandis]

Your water may be too clean. My nitrates and phosphates were at 0 and my Zoas were not doing well at all. I started feeding more and after a few days everything started looking better.

It could be that her zoas are not getting enough nutrients, yes.
But nitrates/phosphates and "dirty water", as opposing to "clean water", is not what we would look for when keeping zoas or corals.
Actually zoas need " clean water" in closed systems. They do need nutrients to thrive, but I believe those nutrients should get in them, not in the water.
Target feeding a quality coral food would be the best way to turn thing around when there is a lack of nutrients for the zoas.

She has some ciano in the tank and more nutrients now could be a disaster.
There aren't many coralline algae on those rocks either. The system could be young. Not for nutrients.

Her tank would probably need some feeding afterwards, but if the substrate is the main problem, with the metals and so on, feeding won't do much, or even get the picture uglier IMO.

Just some of my US$.02.

Grandis.

 

[LittleBee]

No I meant I didn't understand why I should remove the substrate. Lol is there bad things in it leaching out? I know how to remove it hahah. Yea I have a little. It of cyano that I'm trying to get rid of. The tank has been up for 8 months so it's not really that young. There is coralline. Maybe it's just hard to see in the pic but there so some on the rocks and the glass for sure. You are right though I do not want to feed my system more. That will cause a disaster. Well I suppose I will work on gettin the sand out a little at a time like you said and see if that helps any. I really liked the black sand..

Again thanks for all the help guys. I will continue to keep an eye on the stubborn zoas and update on how they do.

 

[Ostara]

In my experience any zoanthid with cyano or algae on it will be irritated and not open. In the pictures it looks like all of yours have some cyano on them. Try to brush them off a bit and solve your cyano/algae issues. Removing the sand will probably help with this a great deal. (See below.)

I agree that the sand is a problem. The package says it is polymer coated, which means that the grains have been covered with an artificial substance (like resin) to give it the black color. These substrates are usually used for freshwater though they often claim to be safe for saltwater. Not only does the coating often wear and rub off, but the sand that they started with is silica which is not what you want for a reef. Silica feeds things like diatoms. So even if it has pictures of saltwater fish and claims to be safe for saltwater, that doesn't mean it's good for a reef (fish only would be fine, but you'd still get algae). I would remove it bit by bit from both of your tanks and replace it with something more appropriate, like aragonite. You can also leave them bare bottom if you prefer. Good luck!

 

[LittleBee]

Ahh okay I see why the sand would be bad now. Okay I will slowly take the sand out of the tank. Thanks again for all the advice!! hopefully this situation gets resolved soon and my zoos are happy again