N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[DJREEF]

It does have "cane molasses" in it so some sugar/carbon dosing. Have no idea how much in it.

Here is the ingredients:
"INGREDIENTS:
Vitamins: Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E
Trace Minerals: Calcium, Cobalt, Copper, Extract, Fluorine, Iodine, Iron, Magnesium, Manganese, NaCl, Phosphorus, Potassium, Selenium, Sulfur, Zinc
Derived from ferment of: Biotin, Calcium carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Calcium Pantothenate, Cobalt Proteinate, Cobalt Sulphate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, DiCalcium Phosphate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Folic Acid, Iron Sulfate, Magnesium Oxide, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Menadione Sodium B, Monocalcium Phosphate, Niacin, Cohline Chloride, Potassium Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Selenium Yeast, Sodium Selenite, Sulfite Complex, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate
Bio-catalysts: Aloe Vera, Cane molasses, Citric Acid
Inert Carriers: Crude Fiber Extract, Crude Protein"

That's what I figured. The stuff was runny, egg white consistency - so prob not much. It was definitely thicker than water, though. Aloe concentrate is predominantly water/polysaccaride based, so that's another potential source.

DJ

 

[NaClH2Opgh]

If you smell the Zeo brand it smells like vinegar. Same principle different source of carbon.

 

[DJREEF]

I'm gonna mix my own concoction of vinegar, sugar (6 types) and ethanol and call it Super Reef Juice (not made from concentrate). Any takers?

DJ

 

[luther1200]

montraelreef, stevensun: Maybe it has something to do with the amount of carbon available in your system now. Both of those problems (dino's and cyano) are challenges of too much carbon, and/or too much of one kind of bacteria (as I've been reading). The label on the BP says you'll see them starting to work in 2 - 4 weeks. So why dose the same amount as you would before the BP with the BP?

So if those are both issue's of have too much carbon and at least 1 of them slowed down the V dose, wouldn't that lead everyone to believe the carbon from the pellets makes it into the tank? Like everyone keeps saying is impossible? Basically the way its made out is that its impossible to overdose with them. But both accounts seem to tell a different story. It shouldn't matter if the V is still being dosed or not, if the C from the pellets never leaves the pellets like described. Right?? Or do I have it mixed up?

 

[DJREEF]

It presumably only does as living microbial mass - ie sloughed bacteria.

DJ

 

[NaClH2Opgh]

So if those are both issue's of have too much carbon and at least 1 of them slowed down the V dose, wouldn't that lead everyone to believe the carbon from the pellets makes it into the tank? Like everyone keeps saying is impossible? Basically the way its made out is that its impossible to overdose with them. But both accounts seem to tell a different story. It shouldn't matter if the V is still being dosed or not, if the C from the pellets never leaves the pellets like described. Right?? Or do I have it mixed up?

I fully believe that it's impossible to just put something like this in your tank and them say only X amount will be released or X amount of bacteria will be produced. There is no way you can stop all the bacteria from making it into the display tank. You can mitigate the amount but that is about it. I still would like to use these down the road when the cost becomes reasonable.

 

[kaskiles]

..., wouldn't that lead everyone to believe the carbon from the pellets makes it into the tank? Like everyone keeps saying is impossible?

Organic carbon from the pellets will make it into the system water, it just may not dissolve directly out of the pellets. I think the claim was that the pellets do not dissolve in salt water.

So when bacteria are consuming the pellet carbon, they will convert some of this carbon to biomass, some to organic carbon waste products and some to CO2.

The bacterioplankton biomass goes into the system water, and is an organic carbon with the pellet as the source. The organic carbon waste products produced by the bacteria will also go out into the system water, and is an organic carbon with the pellet as the source.

Using the pellets and them causing cyano or dino outbreaks does not mean that the pellets dissolve in water (like vodka, sugar, vinegar, etc.). It means that using pellets in your system, with it's configuration, causes dino and/or cyano outbreaks.

 

[luther1200]

From my readings and questions so far, I thought that the theory was that- the C will stay in the reactor where the bacterial colonies will form and "slough" off. So no bacteia should be thriving (in the tank itself) from the C in the pellets outside of the reactor.

 

[luther1200]

Using the pellets and them causing cyano or dino outbreaks does not mean that the pellets dissolve in water (like vodka, sugar, vinegar, etc.). It means that using pellets in your system, with it's configuration, causes dino and/or cyano outbreaks.

I don't think the pellets are disolving, that would be quite obvious to anyone I would think. I'm thinking maybe the C is leaching out or somehow being released to a degree.

 

[sandgoby]

Hey Guys,
I may have missed this question, but do you need to rinse the media before you put it in you reactor? Just got some today and noticed some small particulate in the bag.

Thanks

S

 

[recife111]

but do you need to rinse the media before you put it in you reactor?

no.

 

[kaskiles]

Hey Guys,
I may have missed this question, but do you need to rinse the media before you put it in you reactor? Just got some today and noticed some small particulate in the bag.

I believe they said it is not necessary to rinse them. But I would rinse them, because that way you will know that none of the material is outside of the reactor. And I don't think rinsing them would hurt anything or exhaust them in any way (unless you rinse them in bacteria laden water).

 

[Constantin]

I have been running 500 ml of these biopellets in my 100G SPS dominated tank since December 14th (4 weeks now). I continued to dose vodka at my usual dosage of 10 cc/day for the first 3 weeks and then decreased the dose of Vodka to 5 cc/day for the past week in hopes of decreasing the cyanobacteria that seems to be fuelled by the vodka... this am there is TONS of cyanobacteria everywhere!

my phosphate and nitrate levels were undetectable by salifert test kits before I started the biopellets (I have been dosing vodka for 2 years)

This am they are :

Nitrate : 5
phosphate :0.1

Conclusion: unimpressed!

I realize that 500ml is not the full recommended dosage for my tank but I was only hoping to decrease the vodka requirements... I guess it doesn't work that way... I will try to add another 500 ml and see what happens...

So you had Cyano before and you blame the pellets? makes no sense, unless you had very little of it.

 

[Rickyrooz1]

Doesn't the aquarium require some trace amounts of PO4 for coral growth and coloration???

I think this will be a mistake, you need to locate the source for your excess nutrients that the hair is eating.

I make my own food, I use two DI units for my water and I was running GFO when I tested my PO4 that read 0.07ppm with the Hanna phosphate photometer. I may have too many fish but they sure do a good job of feeding my corals. I also don't have an open rockscape so I'm sure I have detritus trapped within the rockwork that is turning into PO4. The tank is over three years old so some of the detritus has been there for awhile. Only time will tell if the Biopellets will lower the PO4 levels.

This is my starting point.

 

[montrealreef]

So you had Cyano before and you blame the pellets? makes no sense, unless you had very little of it.

I am not blaming the pellets for the cyanobacteria! i had very small patches of cyanobacteria before i ran the pellets...

what I was hoping to achieve with the pellets was to be able to decrease the need for vodka. Everything was fine for the first 3 weeks when I was dosing my usual maintenance dose of vodka (10 ml). In week 4, when I tried to decrease the dose of vodka to 5 ml, the cyanobacteria exploded and my nitrate and phosphate levels went up. My conclusion was that the pellets did not do much in terms of nutrient export and that the lower dose of vodka was not enough for my tank.. i feel that IN MY CASE they do not seem to be doing anything neither positive nor negative.. one could argue that I need to add more ( i have ordered some and I'm waiting for them to arrive)

just sharing my observations and experience..

 

[DJREEF]

I am not blaming the pellets for the cyanobacteria! i had very small patches of cyanobacteria before i ran the pellets...

what I was hoping to achieve with the pellets was to be able to decrease the need for vodka. Everything was fine for the first 3 weeks when I was dosing my usual maintenance dose of vodka (10 ml). In week 4, when I tried to decrease the dose of vodka to 5 ml, the cyanobacteria exploded and my nitrate and phosphate levels went up. My conclusion was that the pellets did not do much in terms of nutrient export and that the lower dose of vodka was not enough for my tank.. i feel that IN MY CASE they do not seem to be doing anything neither positive nor negative.. one could argue that I need to add more ( i have ordered some and I'm waiting for them to arrive)

just sharing my observations and experience..

Well, to be honest? It sounds like you have more work to do. Look, this is brand new. Your expectations were that this media was going to replace your need to dose. It didn't, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't. Unfortunately, we're in the bottom of the 2nd inning with this so yea, a little trial and error is necessary to nail it down. It's possible that you don't have enough media in place to = the amount you were dosing. Maybe you do, and it just hasn't ramped up to full output. I dunno, it sounds like people are expecting miracles from this product that it's incapable of delivering (at least at the present). Maybe in time it might, but for now we just have to work through the process until we know the definitives. U gotta understand that at this point you all are just guinea pigs, right?

DJ

 

[solos2]

Update after running NP pellets for 2 weeks:

NO3: 0 ppm or undetectable using Red Sea test kit (down from 2.5ppm)
PO4: 0 ppm or undetectable using API test kit (unchanged)

Consider I have a very heavy bio load in my tank with ~35G net water volume: 6 fishes, 3 cleaner shrimps, 3 large hermit crabs in sump, 3 small hermit crabs in DT, 6-8 snails and assorted SPS/LPS/Softie corals, in which all I feed daily, I wasn't able to keep my nitrate below 2.5ppm for a long time using a denitrater (black and white balls).

I've since then pretty much disconnected my denitrater (by reducing the flow rate to 1 drop per 6 seconds, to keep the anaerobic bacteria in it alive, just in case), and then saw my nitrate went down to zero in about one week's time (+/- 2 days), this is pretty amazing.

I've also noticed my acro's open up their the tentacles fuller, and extend further than before:

 

[sandgoby]

Ok guys, I have joined the Bio Pellet Club. I have posted a Vid of the reactor working (PhosBan 150). I used 500ml of the pellets. I have never dosed carbon in any form.Reef is a 100g display with total volume at 145 with Light and Dark fuges.

Levels were before Bio Pellets

NO3 0
PO4 0

Started 2 days ago.

I'll Keep you posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYXsNy81vSs

Here's a question, not sure if this is the right spot to ask but since we are all concerned with PO4 If you Alk is high say 11 or 12. Does that mess with the PO4 results? I noticed a disclaimer on the kit I was using regading this. Anyone know if this is common?


Thanks

S

 

[tntneon]

Update after running NP pellets for 2 weeks:

NO3: 0 ppm or undetectable using Red Sea test kit (down from 2.5ppm)
PO4: 0 ppm or undetectable using API test kit (unchanged)

Consider I have a very heavy bio load in my tank with ~35G net water volume: 6 fishes, 3 cleaner shrimps, 3 large hermit crabs in sump, 3 small hermit crabs in DT, 6-8 snails and assorted SPS/LPS/Softie corals, in which all I feed daily, I wasn't able to keep my nitrate below 2.5ppm for a long time using a denitrater (black and white balls).

I've since then pretty much disconnected my denitrater (by reducing the flow rate to 1 drop per 6 seconds, to keep the anaerobic bacteria in it alive, just in case), and then saw my nitrate went down to zero in about one week's time (+/- 2 days), this is pretty amazing.

I've also noticed my acro's open up their the tentacles fuller, and extend further than before:

beautifull pics !!
I experience the same results , more PE then before .
Also growth rates are amazing now , but now and then i also have little paches of cyano , after i replaced an t5 bleu special with an fiji purple it started .
but never an major outbreak.

greetingzz tntneon

 

[GeoffM1968]

For me seeing same results after 6 weeks in my 24g. Skimmer has been offline for last three weeks working on getting a new mesh wheel. Since, seen a slight increase of a white biomass blotches appearing on glass occurring in more frequency on the glass. Assuming this is a bacterial bloom which is minor in my opinion.

Seeing great growth, color, and PE from SPS.

Nitrates Stayed at 17.6 using LaMotte Test Kit
Phosphates Stayed at 0.03 which is theoretically the best reading from the Hanna Photo Meter with minimal detectable phosphates.

Thinking of going from the 300 ml I installed in the TLF Reactor to the full 500 ml.