N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[cvye]

Jean Paul,

What would you think of using a Deltec PF501 fluidized calcium reactor for the pellets? With this setup, the agitation is independent of the flow through the reactor as flow is dictated by the feed pump and agitation is via the built in recirculating pump.

Curious as to your opinion, and what the recommended flow-through rate would be.

Thanks!!

J-P can answer this, but IMHO, I'd think you would seriously limit the number of aerobic bacteria in that kind of reactor, as the flow-through rate is pretty small. Even if it worked well, it's a pretty expensive option. I'm going with a Rowa reactor...

 

[catastrofe]

J-P can answer this, but IMHO, I'd think you would seriously limit the number of aerobic bacteria in that kind of reactor, as the flow-through rate is pretty small. Even if it worked well, it's a pretty expensive option. I'm going with a Rowa reactor...

It's not expensive if you have one laying around gathering dust!!!

You make a good point about flow-through. . .hopefully JP can provide some recommendations.

 

[jptenklooster]

I don't know the flow through of this reactor, but I guess it will be to low, because most calciumreactors have a very low flow through and will result in anaerobic conditions. In my experience the higher the better until your pellets go out of the container, which you don't want . In my set-up I have a flow of aproximately 500l/h, but there are people using 3000l/h in a very open filternet (don't use nylonsocks, they will clog).

Jean Paul,

What would you think of using a Deltec PF501 fluidized calcium reactor for the pellets? With this setup, the agitation is independent of the flow through the reactor as flow is dictated by the feed pump and agitation is via the built in recirculating pump.

Curious as to your opinion, and what the recommended flow-through rate would be.

Thanks!!

 

[catastrofe]

Thanks Jean Paul!

 

[bluereefs]

What about using BP in skimmer body instead of fluid reactor, without cup of course and modified to prevent BP escape (strainer on outlet)? I have few old skimmers laying around. Put the BP inside of skimmer body and they will receive loots of air (quantity of air can be adjusted in case there will be to much air) strong flow/bubbles will made them agitate even more then in fluid reactor.

 

[Frogmanx82]

Bluereefs, I was considering adding the pellets to my tunze nano doc skimmer instead of my canister. I don't have a sump so the best I can do on my 90 gallon tank is 2 tunze nanos. I think I will add pellets to one of them and then compare the skimmates before adding pellets to the other.

My pellets have been shipped, I hope to get them shortly.

 

[bluereefs]

I still whaiting to Dennis ship my BP
I will try bp in skimmer instead of fluid reactor, just for the test, I dont think anything cant be more aerated then skimmer body, well maybe Mike drain are more aerated lol.

 

[jptenklooster]

I considered using a skimmer for the pellets as well, but some skimmers are to powerfull and pellets will be blown out (the airbubbles makes them float quicker than just water). In addition, a skimmer is designed to destroy and skim of your bacteria, whereas you need them to settle on your beads. So I don't think it will work. Using a old skimmer without the aerator should work similarly as a zeovit container, so that should work.

ciao,

JP

 

[recife111]

i have been using a product called reef active by Tropic marin.

I have a feeling that this product is similar to the bio pellets.


By incorporating these long chain marine biopolymers, the new products, REEF ACTIF and PRO-CORAL REEF SNOW greatly increase and maintain the vitality and colour of corals and reef clams while providing other filter feeding animals with an optimal nutrient source. In addition, both products contribute to a significant improvement in the water quality of saltwater aquaria.
http://www.tropic-marin.com/web/english/homepage.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopolymer

 

[catastrofe]

i have been using a product called reef active by Tropic marin.

I have a feeling that this product is similar to the bio pellets.


By incorporating these long chain marine biopolymers, the new products, REEF ACTIF and PRO-CORAL REEF SNOW greatly increase and maintain the vitality and colour of corals and reef clams while providing other filter feeding animals with an optimal nutrient source. In addition, both products contribute to a significant improvement in the water quality of saltwater aquaria.
http://www.tropic-marin.com/web/english/homepage.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopolymer

IMHO, these TM products are similar to Zeovit Coral Snow and Zeozyme, both of which I use. I don't see a similarity between these products and the NP Pellets. The pellets are a long-term carbon source/bacterial growth medium. The TM and Zeo products are single dose products that facilitate skimming of organics, but they aren't a bacterial growth medium.

JMHO. . .

 

[tatuvaaj]

I agree, Reef Actif and Biopellets are not really the same thing. I use both

 

[bluereefs]

Tatuvaaj IIRC I readed in your web site that you was not satisfied with TM reef actif products, can you tell us why? I asking because I searching foor good quality food and if TM are not good then there is no reason for me to buy them.

One more question, do you think bacteria mass from bio pellets can provide very good food source for sponges? Do you think bp itself can give enough food for sponges?

I have Trikentrion flabelliforme in my aquarium and looking for quality food for them, IIRC I think you have them too. Red branching sponge with white parazoanthus.

 

[tatuvaaj]

Tatuvaaj IIRC I readed in your web site that you was not satisfied with TM reef actif products, can you tell us why? I asking because I searching foor good quality food and if TM are not good then there is no reason for me to buy them.

Yes, I was dissatisfied because I had unrealistic expectations. I made a rookie mistake and trusted a small number of posts on forums without knowing the people and without looking more closely their aquariums and husbandry practices. This let me to believe that Reef Actif alone could keep nutrients down even with the heavy feeding I do. It didn't help that my skimmer broke around the same time... The reward for this idiocy: 25+ ppm NO3 and 1.0 ppm PO4. BTW, the zooxanthellae corals seemed to be just fine but all azooxanthellae corals suffered greatly.

I still use Reef Actif because I think (!) it improves corals pigmentation and helps skimming. Corals are not necessarily more colorful but have more natural pigmentation.

One more question, do you think bacteria mass from bio pellets can provide very good food source for sponges? Do you think bp itself can give enough food for sponges?

It is hard for me to say because I feed so much other stuff . BP will certainly help and I can see some of the gorgonians and tunicates eating the bacteria after I disturb BP. It is well known that bacterioplankton is very important part of nutrition for many filter feeders but I think we need more practical experience.

I have Trikentrion flabelliforme in my aquarium and looking for quality food for them, IIRC I think you have them too. Red branching sponge with white parazoanthus.

RIP. Together with another sponge it died because of the water quality issues I had :furious: It was hard lesson for me: many animals that are sometimes thought to do well in more "dirty" water were the ones that suffered most from the elevated nutrients!

 

[jptenklooster]

there are a lot of sponges that eat bacteria, however, not all of them. In my experience the beautifull hard orange and blue sponges eat different things and are harder the feed. There is a research group in the netherlands that has shown that many sponges actually absorve large biopolymers such as proteins and oil. Based on this I have tested wether a mixture of gelatine, fishoil and water could be used to feed them and some sponges (haliclona in particular) responded really well by dubling its biomass within weeks. On the other hand, yoghurt seems to work very well for some sponges as well.
Keep in mind that most yoghurts have a lower pH than seawater, so you could consider adding a bit of CaOH to compensate for the drop in pH.

greetzzz JP

 

[jptenklooster]

one major protein which is present in sponges is collagen. this is a major building block for their tissues. When collagen is isolated from for instance pig skin or other animal sources, it is boild or denatured by other means and is then named, gelatine. With other words, by adding gelatine to your tank, your are profiding your sponges with one of their major building blocks. Happy testing :wave:

 

[tatuvaaj]

JP,

What about phosphorous in casein? Is it of any concern?

BTW, these guys used casein to help skimmer remove bacteria from costal seawater:

Suzuki et al. Removal of bacteria from coastal seawater by foam separation using dispersed bubbles and surface-active substances. Journal Of Bioscience And Bioengineering (2008) vol. 105 (4) pp. 383-388

 

[bluereefs]

Tatuvaaj and jptenklooster thank you for great informations and news. Always love sponges, never had so much luck with them, besides collospongia (photosysntetic).

How much yoghurts we can add in tank? Aprox guide measure?
Where I can find or made colagen? I dont wont to put pig skin in my aquarium :spin3: lol, and regarding fishoil is that fishoil available in drugstore?
Does other invertebrates/corals show negative/positive efect to yoghurt or colagen?

 

[Mike O'Brien]

Interesting. From WIKI.

The approximate amino acid composition of gelatin is: glycine 21%, proline 12%, hydroxyproline 12%, glutamic acid 10%, alanine 9%, arginine 8%, aspartic acid 6%, lysine 4%, serine 4%, leucine 3%, valine 2%, phenylalanine 2%, threonine 2%, isoleucine 1%,hydroxylysine 1%, methionine and histidine <1% and tyrosine <0.5%.

 

[bluereefs]

BTW jptenklooster is there a chance to show those aquarium with sponges? Is that aquarium where you tested bio pellets? It will be great to see them, of course if is posiblle.

 

[eliashickman]

outlet placement

outlet placement

So I got my package yesterday and spent about 5 hours doing a water change, fresh water dipping some fishes, putting together my biopellets and phosban reactor, and general maintenance.

So my question is where do I place the outlet tube from the phosban reactor? Near my return pump or hear the skimmer inlet?

BTW, all these educated questions rock. Thanks guys.