Name this chalice?

[Tuscaquatics]

I wasnt addressing the original poster so much as some of the other posters in this thread. And yes, we are dealing with things similar to show dogs. People out there pay BIG to know that their coral is an original "My Miami" or "Goku" they do not pay as big for knock offs, and people do get angry when somebody tries to sell something as a coral that it isnt. My point is, if it didnt have a name when you bought it then take the time to give it your own name. I dont dislike the name game, I like to know what I am buying, but I dont buy things I dont like. In the end I only pay a premium if I think it is a cool looking coral regardless of the name.

I agreed with you. That's why I put "this" in reference to your post. That's why I was saying the name was important.

But another point was that naming them is somewhat dubious to begin with since the difference in them are so subtle. They're all the same species.

 

[bigevill1]

ah, I misunderstood. :lol: I guess I should have read it more carefully.

 

[SkullV]

It's not like we're talking about different species. They're all pretty much the same species but just different color morphs. Just because some dude says this piece is a, lets say, "Hollywood Stunner" doesn't necessarily make it true. But if it looks like one, then it is, isn't it?

This all has much more to do with pricing than it is about ID-ing something specific.

I wasnt addressing the original poster so much as some of the other posters in this thread. And yes, we are dealing with things similar to show dogs. People out there pay BIG to know that their coral is an original "My Miami" or "Goku" they do not pay as big for knock offs, and people do get angry when somebody tries to sell something as a coral that it isnt. My point is, if it didnt have a name when you bought it then take the time to give it your own name. I dont dislike the name game, I like to know what I am buying, but I dont buy things I dont like. In the end I only pay a premium if I think it is a cool looking coral regardless of the name.

I agreed with you. That's why I put "this" in reference to your post. That's why I was saying the name was important.

But another point was that naming them is somewhat dubious to begin with since the difference in them are so subtle. They're all the same species.

I'm a little confused, are you guys saying you agree with calling a coral that you did not purchase with a name by a common name, or are you saying you should give it it's own name.

I just take issue with people dropping known names on unnamed corals mostly based on high end suppliers like Fox, Tyree, ORA, etc. It's one thing to say it looks like a Hollywood stunner, but another to say it looks like a Fox .......

I also agree with your points about buying corals based on looks not name. That's what I have always done. I don't mind owning a named coral but wouldn't sell a coral as named when I don't know/didn't purchase it with that name.

 

[bigevill1]

I am saying that if it isnt a hollywood stunner, then you shouldnt say it is. if it isnt a rasta watermelon chalice then you shouldnt call it that. Thats why I call mine "Big Evil Watermelon" :lol:

 

[Tuscaquatics]

I'm a little confused, are you guys saying you agree with calling a coral that you did not purchase with a name by a common name, or are you saying you should give it it's own name.

I just take issue with people dropping known names on unnamed corals mostly based on high end suppliers like Fox, Tyree, ORA, etc. It's one thing to say it looks like a Hollywood stunner, but another to say it looks like a Fox .......

I also agree with your points about buying corals based on looks not name. That's what I have always done. I don't mind owning a named coral but wouldn't sell a coral as named when I don't know/didn't purchase it with that name.

I'm obviously not speaking for him, but as for me, I'm saying that I don't agree with calling just any coral by a specific name, unless it is known to have come from a certain place. Saying just some acro is an ORA acro is ridiculous. But people do that, and charge a higher price.

This is what I meant by saying the naming process was "dubious." It can be very important when pricing them, but people don't take it seriously. If the person selling it to you says it's one thing, and it looks like it, then you're gonna pay for it is as if it is. Unless we're doing genetic identification, then for all intents and purposes, a blue chalice with neon green eyes is a Hollywood Stunner if the guys says it is.

 

[bigevill1]

Thats why people should always ask for pics of actual frags before they buy. I want to know exactly what I am getting before I shell anything out for it. I have always posted pics of actual frags in my sales threads. That way you are paying for a coral you know you like. In that case I dont care as much about the name. I am paying for a cool looking coral.

 

[SkullV]

I am saying that if it isnt a hollywood stunner, then you shouldnt say it is. if it isnt a rasta watermelon chalice then you shouldnt call it that. Thats why I call mine "Big Evil Watermelon" :lol:

This is what I meant by saying the naming process was "dubious." It can be very important when pricing them, but people don't take it seriously. If the person selling it to you says it's one thing, and it looks like it, then you're gonna pay for it is as if it is. Unless we're doing genetic identification, then for all intents and purposes, a blue chalice with neon green eyes is a Hollywood Stunner if the guys says it is.

Alright, now I understand where you guys are coming from. I agree with Bigevil and don't necessarily disagree with you Tusc. The only issue with calling something by a name that it did not come with is that it can change color under different lighting. I guess this is just one of those subjects that will always be debated.

 

[israel.kendall]

I wasnt addressing the original poster so much as some of the other posters in this thread. And yes, we are dealing with things similar to show dogs. People out there pay BIG to know that their coral is an original "My Miami" or "Goku" they do not pay as big for knock offs, and people do get angry when somebody tries to sell something as a coral that it isnt. My point is, if it didnt have a name when you bought it then take the time to give it your own name. I dont dislike the name game, I like to know what I am buying, but I dont buy things I dont like. In the end I only pay a premium if I think it is a cool looking coral regardless of the name.

Show dogs have been BRED to attain certain traits thus lineage matters. You can't just pull a wild dog from the wilderness with those traits.

With corals, yes you can absolutely pull more Tyree LE wharchalamadingdong's out if the ocean. No one is breeding these corals to attain these features, they are just pulled from the wild like that. To think that another coral exactly like it is a "knockoff" is ridiculous, do you think there are no more being collected or what?

Once people start breeding corals to develope their own strains then and only then can they claim a special lineage and call others knockoffs.

 

[SkullV]

Show dogs have been BRED to attain certain traits thus lineage matters. You can't just pull a wild dog from the wilderness with those traits.

With corals, yes you can absolutely pull more Tyree LE wharchalamadingdong's out if the ocean. No one is breeding these corals to attain these features, they are just pulled from the wild like that. To think that another coral exactly like it is a "knockoff" is ridiculous, do you think there are no more being collected or what?

Once people start breeding corals to develope their own strains then and only then can they claim a special lineage and call others knockoffs.

You can absolutely NOT pull more Tyree whatever out of the ocean. Only Tyree can pull more Tyree whatever out of the ocean. You can however pull that whatever out of the ocean and call it whatever you want, whether you are going to be honest and say what it REALLY is or not is up to you.

One thing that I have learned without a doubt going from FOWLR to Reef is that purchasing corals are a "Buyer Beware" market. There are just too many dishonest people/vendors out there to purchase an expensive coral for anything but looks unless you have true lineage.

 

[Tuscaquatics]

Show dogs have been BRED to attain certain traits thus lineage matters. You can't just pull a wild dog from the wilderness with those traits.

With corals, yes you can absolutely pull more Tyree LE wharchalamadingdong's out if the ocean. No one is breeding these corals to attain these features, they are just pulled from the wild like that. To think that another coral exactly like it is a "knockoff" is ridiculous, do you think there are no more being collected or what?

Once people start breeding corals to develope their own strains then and only then can they claim a special lineage and call others knockoffs.

True to some degree. But a lot of the truly rarer corals aren't being just pulled out of the water every day. Some of them have effectively been smuggled out of places to begin with. So there really is just one dude somewhere in Florida or whatever that has the original piece.

 

[bigevill1]

With corals, yes you can absolutely pull more Tyree LE wharchalamadingdong's out if the ocean. No one is breeding these corals to attain these features, they are just pulled from the wild like that. To think that another coral exactly like it is a "knockoff" is ridiculous, do you think there are no more being collected or what?
.

No, you cannot just pull another tyree coral out of the ocean. The coral in question would be a different piece of coral. It might look exactly the same, but it isnt the same. The thing is we are talking about ONE colony of coral that is split up and sold across the country (world) because it has an awesome color morph. If you get another coral that looks the same that does not make it the ONE. it makes it something else, that should have a different name. We are trying to support captive grown corals so that more corals are not just pulled out of the ocean, and more and more countries are restricting the harvesting of corals from their reefs.

 

[Superman92088]

+1 that it's a watermelon

 

[Helter Skilter]

I'm with Big Evil here. Just because I buy a wild colony of blue Monti with red polyps doesn't mean I can sell it as Superman Monti. That would be false advertising. Superman is a superb specimen of that color morph (yes, there is deversity even amongst similar color morphs). If you want to sell that wild colony as "I can't believe it's not Superman" Monti, by all means do so, but do not try to pass it off as THE Superman Monti.

In short, if you don't know the exact lineage of a coral, you simply have a very nice unamed coral to place your own brand upon.

 

[Cubbies]

Wow! What a discussion. . . very informative I might say

 

[israel.kendall]

You can absolutely NOT pull more Tyree whatever out of the ocean. Only Tyree can pull more Tyree whatever out of the ocean. You can however pull that whatever out of the ocean and call it whatever you want, whether you are going to be honest and say what it REALLY is or not is up to you.

One thing that I have learned without a doubt going from FOWLR to Reef is that purchasing corals are a "Buyer Beware" market. There are just too many dishonest people/vendors out there to purchase an expensive coral for anything but looks unless you have true lineage.

You think Steve Tyree is out there diving pulling up these corals?!?! Do you even know that some of these Tyree LE corals were owned by multiple people before they ever landed in his hands? Oh, but those others that are even older than his colony are "knockoffs" huh since they don't have the lineage from tyree's tank.

The buyers beware part is beware of this marketing hype.

 

[israel.kendall]

True to some degree. But a lot of the truly rarer corals aren't being just pulled out of the water every day. Some of them have effectively been smuggled out of places to begin with. So there really is just one dude somewhere in Florida or whatever that has the original piece.

I agree, I'm not saying there are not truly rare corals out there. I'm saying 90% of this LE crazy chalice biz is hype and they aren't so rare.

 

[israel.kendall]

No, you cannot just pull another tyree coral out of the ocean. The coral in question would be a different piece of coral. It might look exactly the same, but it isnt the same. The thing is we are talking about ONE colony of coral that is split up and sold across the country (world) because it has an awesome color morph. If you get another coral that looks the same that does not make it the ONE. it makes it something else, that should have a different name. We are trying to support captive grown corals so that more corals are not just pulled out of the ocean, and more and more countries are restricting the harvesting of corals from their reefs.

If it looks exactly the same, who are you to say its not? Are you genetically testing them to verify, or are you just trying to justify the price? If it looks EXACTLY the same, why would you not want it, because it wasn't in an auto mechanic's tank (Jason Fox)? Do certain peoples tanks magically make a colony better?

If you think someone buying a $2-300 frag of some overhyped coral is saving the reef then you are sadly mistaken. Expensive corals put MORE demand on the people collecting from the wild. Someone struck gold with a coral and now everyone wants to find the NEXT future over hyped gold mine of a coral. This is fact.

 

[Tuscaquatics]

I agree, I'm not saying there are not truly rare corals out there. I'm saying 90% of this LE crazy chalice biz is hype and they aren't so rare.

You're absolutely right about that. That's the point. Nobody takes the naming seriously and stuff gets watered down. What I was saying way back to begin with is that with the way things are now, if a dude sells you a blue and red monti and says it's a Superman, and he asks a Superman price, and you pay that price, you've effectively just bought a Superman monti as far as both of you are concerned. It doesn't matter that in reality it's just a similar looking coral.

We're talking about minor differences amongst creatures of the same species.

 

[israel.kendall]

I'm with Big Evil here. Just because I buy a wild colony of blue Monti with red polyps doesn't mean I can sell it as Superman Monti. That would be false advertising. Superman is a superb specimen of that color morph (yes, there is deversity even amongst similar color morphs). If you want to sell that wild colony as "I can't believe it's not Superman" Monti, by all means do so, but do not try to pass it off as THE Superman Monti.

In short, if you don't know the exact lineage of a coral, you simply have a very nice unamed coral to place your own brand upon.

If it didn't have the same colors then its not exactly the same. Corals that are exactly the same I would say can share the same name, you wont know the difference anyways.

 

[israel.kendall]

You're absolutely right about that. That's the point. Nobody takes the naming seriously and stuff gets watered down. What I was saying way back to begin with is that with the way things are now, if a dude sells you a blue and red monti and says it's a Superman, and he asks a Superman price, and you pay that price, you've effectively just bought a Superman monti as far as both of you are concerned. It doesn't matter that in reality it's just a similar looking coral.

We're talking about minor differences amongst creatures of the same species.

In total agreement there.