Naming Zoanthids?

smp

New member
Sorry if this sounds inflammatory to anyone, but what's the point of naming zoos?
Personally, I hate half the names and when I keep seeing very nice looking zoos being referred to in cheesy ways it hurts me!
Also, there is so much confusion half the time about what is what that it makes it almost moot.


What's wrong with simply describing them? Green skirt with peach centers .. etc
seems simpler, no?
I guess at one time it was special zoos that got named, but now every single type has 4 names and people are inventing names for their zoos left right and center.
Anyways, if I'm wrong feel free to straighten me out.
 
Fancy names make people feel better about what the have :) Really though, naming them makes it easier to ID.
 
That's what I mean.
I don't think it's easier to ID, I think it complicates it.
The names are based on the colour .. why not just call it a "purple zoanthid", or "green skirt, green center" or whatever, that's more descriptive than half the names I see out there.
I'm gonna name my favourite zoos in my tank "whiny bastards" :D
(after me)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6511587#post6511587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
That's what I mean.
I don't think it's easier to ID, I think it complicates it.
The names are based on the colour .. why not just call it a "purple zoanthid", or "green skirt, green center" or whatever, that's more descriptive than half the names I see out there.
I'm gonna name my favourite zoos in my tank "whiny bastards" :D
(after me)

Well since there are many purple zoas that are completely different from other purple zoas then your way won't work. Same goes with every other color.
 
If anyone is familiar with FW plecos there is a neat way they have those classified, other than thru scientific names. It's the L system. You could say I have an L-34 and I'm looking for a L-29, then everyone could go to there book and see the exact specimen you have and what you want. I agree on the common names being more confusing, with everyone just making there own there is no consistency. Someone that has enough authority in the subject of zoo's just needs to sit down and code each one and make it the standard by which all are judged and recognized. If someone does this it would have to use Z #'s of course!!
 
I don't know. I have 7 different types of zoos in my tank and the desire to know what people are calling them has never presented itself. I just call them all 'pretty'.
What I'm asking, if I'm asking anything .. is how is it useful to ID them?
I understand wanting to ID whether it's a palythoa or a zoanthid or you know, for the sake of knowing how to care for them, but anything further than that.. ?
The ID tells you what colour it is, which you already know just by looking at it .. does it tell you anything else?
I guess I'm missing something.
Again, I'm not trying to be a bastard, it's just an innate characteristic :(
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6511705#post6511705 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
I don't know. I have 7 different types of zoos in my tank
Oh thats why you don't understand it. You have to have more then 10 different types before you want names for them :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6511866#post6511866 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by whodah
here is why i like naming zoas. :D

Thanks, good post and Calfo's article was a good lunch time read.
I didn't consider the whole trading scenario, that's definitely a plus on the side of naming. I still don't like half the names I see though :p
Also, I'm now out on a mission to name my own Zoos .. "Whiny Bastards", I just have to find some that aren't named yet that look appropriate :D
 
Hey, I just thought of another reason that naming zoos might be important .. I'm curious where my zoos come from!
I've always liked to know where any animal that I keep (and I've kept lots) comes from, that's part of the interest for me. I'm gonna go see if zoaid.com mentions this...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6512413#post6512413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
LOL in the last 2hrs you went from being a "Whiny Bastard" to naming your zoas :lol:

Guilty.

Okay, so I don't see any of the zoos that I have over at Zoaid.com.
Is it safe to assume that I can bastardize away?
 
With all due respect, and I mean this as nicely as possible, there are many reasons why I am against naming zoos. I'm not cutting anyone down for doing it, and I wouldn't say one bad thing about anyone who does. Here's what I have seen over the past year that supports my stand along with why I feel the way I do. Naming zoos is great for the people who enjoy it, but I just happen to feel completely different about the whole name game, here's why.

1. I have actually watched 2 reefers argue over the name of a zoanthid. I mean they almost came to blows over, " A NAME". Why? I won't call the name in question, but Reefer A thought he was getting one thing, and Reefer B sold him something that wasn't what Reefer A thought it was. A week had past when Reefer A was told by Reefer C that the colony wasn't what Reefer B told Reefer A it was. Now here's the funny thing, both Reefer A and B, couldn't keep anything alive in their tanks. Both knew nothing about husbandry or water Chemistry. Both of their tanks looked like a swamp, diatoms everywhere, cyano on the substrate and thick green hair algae, yet here they were arguing over a name. Both had killed at least a dozen colonies of exceptional zooanthids.

I have spoken with one or two reefers in this forum, who can't get their zoos to multiply, their zoos continue to lose coloration, they have poor expansion, their zoos are always sick or simply collapsing on a weekly bases, yet they argue with me over the name of a polyp. Now I know I'm going to get my throat cut over this, but this is the truth. I'm into educating, ldiscovery, learning and sharing the knowledge that will promote a prospering system. I know it's fun to name them, but far too much emphasis is being placed on a name, and not on education. I've yet to see weekly discussions to enlighten the forum on what someone has discovered, experienced, how and what they did to consistently improve the appearance and overall health of their collection. I've yet to see what common or new and innovative "things" someone has tried that has improved the health of their zoos.

2. A name is what is being used both online and in LFS to rip a lot of unsuspecting reefers off, including a lot of newbies. I have seen it more times than I can count. I have watch LFS tell an unsuspecting reefer, " OH, these are the real deal. They are call Kamikaze Reds, they are extremely rare and very very expensive. But I'll cut you a deal. 10 polyps for $ 80". This is what the name game has done. Now here's the killer, the zoos weren't even red, they were orange, under heavy actinics, but the buyers was hyped by the sellers word game. I know that naming was a positive thing, but others have used it for gain. Others find it simply enjoyable to name them, and that's cool. However, at the same time, there are reefers who won't take a hot minute to read or research what it takes to maintain a happy and healthy zoo colony. I don't understand that. Now I know if my name was Calfo or Dr. Photoperiod, someone would see what I'm trying to convery. And no, there's not an arrogant nor cocky bone in my body. From my heart I just want us to be able to grow, keep, cultivate and propagate consistantly healthy corals. This is where I think the real focus should be directed.

3. Naming zoos would be great if there was a universal nomenclature ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nomenclature ) that designates them all. That will never happen, therefore, you will always have reefers arguing over a name, reefers being ripped off because of a name as well as misrepresentation.

4. It's one of the reasons I stopped selling zoos. I sent 4 frags to L.A., a few years ago. I sent pics before hand along with a detailed description. Once they arrived, I was questioned about the names of the zoos. My response, well since I didn't discover them, I didn't feel the need to assign a name. His reply, well he said the first frag was a "Moody Blue", the second was a " Kawasaki Orange", I forgot the two other names. He never mentioned the deal that I gave him. He never said thank you, he never even noticed that I gave him twice the number of polyps at no extra cost. Bottom line, he was more concerned with the name, than anything else. Two weeks later, he emailed me. He stated not only were the zoos I sent him looking bad, but all of his zoos were in trouble. I sent him a list of 10 things to check. Everything was fine, then I ask a few more questions, and told him to get a volt meter. Sure enough, he had crazy stray voltage. It was at this time that he noticed his fish were hiding. He placed his hand in his take and -Bizzzzzzzzzzzzz....electricity. He lost everything as it was present for some time. He didn't notice it because he used rubber gloves when he worker in his tank. And to think, he placed more emphasis on a name, then he did on the stray voltage which wiped out his tank.

5. Finally, a couple years ago, I had this crazy color growing in my tank. I sold one frag to a local reefer. Within two weeks, someone had attached my name to the title and name of this morph. Yes, it was called "Mucho's - - - - - Zooanthid. LOL

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, it's just my opinion and my opinion alone. Naming zoos is fun and the names are very unique. I simply choose to focus on other areas that will sustain the zoo keepers long after all the unique names have been exhausted.

Great site Whodah.

Mucho
 
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lol - well, i'm not gonna disagree that i like some zoa names better than others...

i'm more of a 'testarossa' namer than a '911' namer myself ;) (not that i dislike either car of course!)

but hey, i'm guilty of naming the 'is it nippy in here?'
icon_lmao.gif


as for the origin: when supplied, the origin is definitely added! an example:
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=pnGallery2&func=main&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=920

(note the 'Origin' of 'Bali')

eventually i'll make those that do not have origins listed say something like:
Origin: Unknown! contact me if you know!

similar to the few named zoas that don't have the original namer listed. (i.e. the 'eagle eyes' - no clue who named them originally!)

lastly - of course you can call whatever zoa whatever you like as can anyone else! :D

if yer asking about putting them up on ZoaID.com - there's only a few easy criteria (descent shot, no name overlapping, etc.) and
then they'll get put up! there's a 'Submit a Zoa' link on the left hand menu. enjoy! :)
 
hey mucho!

all friends here, right? :) i remember you saying we can disagree and still be friends! :)

1. sounds more like a problem w/ reefer A and B then a zoa naming problem...

2. sounds more like a problem w/ a dishonest vendor than a naming problem... they could do the same thing by saying "the rare super duper bright red ones! i swear, this is the only red one like it!", no?

3. not gonna disagree there w/ a universal naming system! it's a good idea! IMHO a little less fun, but i'm not opposed to it at all. someone posted that it would be nifty to see a universal diagram on how to name them based on color - i'm currently working on such thing and will hopefully have several people help me w/ it as well. perhaps then we can come up w/ a standard and a fun name? :)

4. again - more like a problem w/ the reefer then a zoa naming problem...

sooooooooo many of these naming problems are ignorance (NOT meant in a demeaning way!) or dishonesty. but i argue this: w/out naming it 'safecracker', these dishonest acts would still exist - just by stating "the uber OMG rare you must have to complete your life's purpose red and blue ones!"

thoughts? hit me back! :D

/edit: wanted to clarify the term 'ignorance' in a non-demeaning way!!!
 
Not really, LOL. The bottom line is, more focus is being placed on a name, and not enought focus or education on keeping them alive and well. The point with # 1 is this. Reefer A was calling it one name, reefer B saw it referred to on another site as another name. They weren't necessarily arguing over the zoos, they were arguing over the names they were given in reference to them.

Regarding # 2, a name is so often used for hype, I'm sure you know that. I wasn't referring to the LFS, I'm more concerned with the newbie who was ripped off as he or she became hyped over a NAME. The same with # 4, THE NAME, the name is his only concern, nothing else. His focus was having a NAME of something he saw somewhere online. Why? So he could say he had it in his tank also.

LOL, sure, we can agree to disagree, and I'm glad we can do it like gentlmen. And yes, LOL, we're still FRIENDS good buddy.

Mucho
 
friends: w00t! i knew that going into it, just wanted others to see that so they know we're not at each others throats, heh! :) nothing but <3

so - take naming out. blam, gone. no more naming. what zoa is that? the red one. cause it has no name. :)

do we still agree that there will always be the latest and greatest hottest coral out there? (setting aside whether you personally think there is or should be... i'm asking in general. the latest acan, the latest monti, the latest zoa...) i'm saying that there will always be the latest and greatest 'purple and green' zoa whether it has a name or not.

let's assume we do agree - or at least approach it from that angle a sec (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong btw!). people post a pic, or sell a zoa in a flattering way and people, like wildfire, desire the 'purple and green' one. thus demand goes up, prices go down... er wait... prices go up... ;)

so - dishonesty goes away? people start focusing more on their tanks rather than their acquisitions? people start focusing on the care of the animals more and less on latest hot 'purple number 2' zoa?

i just think that 'naming a zoa' gets too bad of a wrap. whether it's named or not, i personally think these other issues would exist.

and don't mistake this for me discrediting the need for focusing on tanks, well being of livestock, propogating, etc.. just that naming zoas rather than an exclusive color description is not where the finger needs to be pointed for these problems IMHO ;)
 
Ok...I'm gonna have to side with naming them. I think just like whodah says, its so much easier to discribe them with a name. I would never buy something just for the name though, and if people do then they are going to be setup for alot of disapointment in their life. I went to a fellow reefers house to get a frag of Fire and ice zoa's (lets face it...they are stunning, name or not!) and getting there I told him they were definatly not fire and ice...he got very mad and then GAVE me the whole colony, he did not want them because they were not "fire and ice" I thought they were very nice...name or not...took them & re-named them fire in the sky. Was he crazy for giving them up because they were not what he thought....YES, you should have the zoa because you like it not a name. Was I crazy for re-naming them...I personally dont think so, I think the name fits :)

Also look on the SPS side of things...people pay $100+ for a frag of anything from Tyree when there is identical pieces out there for lots less. Its not just us zoa people who name things :p
 
Mucho kind of described my initial concern ... mine is more general.
Hype, just like with clothes.
You can buy a hooded sweater with no logo on it for 20 bucks .. it's all black and looks nice, 100% cotton .. good stuff!
You can buy a hooded sweater with a logo on it that is otherwise the same as the previous one and it'll be 60 dollars.

The people who buy the 20 dollar sweater feel like they have an inferior product. The people naming both the zoos and the sweater are the same, they are increasing importance.
If some newb doesn't see his zoa on Zoaid.com then he thinks it's not special.
The problem isn't just the naming, it's the attitude that our culture has to value .. people can't just like it because it's pretty, they have to feel like they have something that other people don't. Creativity and freedom of thought is what's lacking, naming isn't the problem it's the symptom :)

I wear unbranded clothes BTW :D
 
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