Nano as a reference

[EdKruzel]

What is a Nano? Simply put it's a small tank, but while small tanks have been around forever the term “Nano” hasn't.

Nearly two decades ago very few hobbyists dared to keep reef animals in small tanks, but noted author and hobbyist Julian Sprung took the challenge. He not only kept corals in smaller tanks, but in jars as well. While on the speaking tour for the saltwater hobby he referred to his tanks as “Nano's” and when asked the parameters of a “Nano” Julian replied, “20 gallons or less”. Hence a new genre of the hobby was born. The phrase was coined and I believe it is something to inspire to.

Quite a few hobbyists attempt a “nano” but very few are successful long term. This is a classification that most should be proud of when successful. The challenges are far greater than with larger systems. Water parameters change much quicker in a small environment and disease and parasites can ravish a system before most hobbyist take notice. I've noticed over the years that most attempts fail because of the dedication and knowledge needed fall short to impatience. Lately more and more hobbyists give up through frustration and go to easier to manage larger systems, but still wish to call their tanks the ever distinguishable “Nano”. I have a Toyota Tundra that's a good running 4x4; even so no matter how many times I refer to it as a Ferrari, it's still a Toyota.

Some of the particulars that make a “nano” successful long term are planning, patience and resistance. These are key fundamentals with any system, but even more so with small tanks. I've observed many small systems with fish that have no business being there. A recent nTOTM (here on RC) was a bit above the “nano” classifications but has a nice display of corals maturing well and in properly planned areas of that system; unfortunately it has a Sailfin Tang swimming about. The owner states the tang will go into a larger system, but I have to wonder how easy or difficult it will be to catch it. Will the corals and/or rockwork have to be dismantled in order to remove this fish? I wish him the best of luck and hope the tang swims freely into a net, but this is truly something under the category of “planning” and “resistance”. Corals are another consideration nano hobbyists seldom properly plan. Galaxy (Galaxea fascicularis) Torch & Hammers (Euphyllia sp.) and Bubble (Plerogyra sp.) are three very popular corals that I've kept (and keep) but can wreak havoc with long extending sweeper tentacles. Matting corals like the Green Star Polyps (Pachyclavularia sp.) can quickly over grow and smother neighboring corals while large leathers (Sarcophyton sp.) can rapidly over shadow and block light from its neighbors. Almost any coral can be kept in a nano, but without proper planning, you may be pruning and performing various maintenance more than you are just watching and enjoying the tank.

Here at RC we are quite generous referring to tanks as large as 30 gallons as a nano, but as we all know it is those that keep tanks in the 20 and under category as True Nano Keepers, (all others have small tanks).

For those that keep reef tanks over 20 gallons, be proud of your long term success, but if you wish the undeniable title, drop a few gallons and join the 20 and under club.

Sea U in the forums...

 

[EdKruzel]

Because "Nano" is a title and not just another small tank, we'd like to get some of the members, yes you guys, to express your opinion on what you'd like to see titled as a "Nano" and as a "Mini Nano".

There has to be some insightful explanation behind your opinion, not just, "I have a 55gal that seems pretty small to me so I want to call it a nano".

If you read the post above you know that my opinion sticks with the originator at 20 gallons max for a "Nano". To me a "Mini Nano" is under a gallon and definitely worthy of a title to its own.

I was sent on a temporary duty a few years ago for just over three months; for that time I was living out of a motel room and decided I would run a saltwater tank in my tiny kitchenette. It was a tiny acrylic cube (less than a half gallon) with a tiny filter and a flexible LED set of lights. It had a couple pieces of larger rubble rock (golf ball size) a few mushrooms and zoo's with a Blood Shrimp. Being away from my family and stuck in a motel it helped to pass the days, but I do not have the time or patience to run a tank like that here at home. My hat is off to the many of you that keep tanks in that small of a range for any period of time.

Be proud of your accomplishments over those with soooo much more water volume to work with and express your opinion here.

 

[flamethis]

I read this last night (glad you opened it up for discussion) and I was in complete agreement for the most part. I always thought that to be a Nano tank, it had to be 20G or under. No matter the form of the tank, 18G Bowfront, 10G AGA, Homemade Cube or whatever.

The problem seems to arise when companies selling Nano Cubes, (pre-manufactured tanks with false walls for filtering chambers) at sizes of up to 30G. It's pretty difficult to tell someone that their 28G NanoCube isn't a nano tank... Same for someone with a 24G AquaPod....

On another note, you'll see endless amounts of tanks Using a 20G display tank, but a matching 20G sump/fuge set up. Nano or not? Kinda cheating on the water volume of the system..

As for the "mini nano", I've also heard the term "Pico" To me it falls as anything 2.5G and under. Put some sand and LR in there and there isn't much for water volume. I've seen these mainly as sexy shrimp tanks.

Currently I have a 10G with a Hang on filter converted to a fuge, So maybe 11G? Is it a nano tank? Yes. Am I a Nano Reefer? Maybe not yet. The tank is only a few months old. Things are growing well, from softies to SPS, and the fish are happy.

I guess it all comes down to what you deem as Long term success. That would be what seperates a Nano Reefer from a guy with a really small tank..

 

[gas4544]

I agree with flamethis regarding the all-in-one "nano tank" that are commercially produced. Even though some of those integrated tanks are larger than 20 or even 30 gallons, they are still very similar in how they are designed and how they operate.

This forum has a wide variety of hobbyists participating. We have people starting out with their first tank and people with years of experience with larger non-nano tanks. We also have everything in between.

This forum provides a good place for new reefkeepers to come and hang out with others who have similar, if not the same set-ups. Its also a great place for more experienced reefers to share their experience and knowlege with others.

Regardless of what the original definition of a nono tank was years ago, I feel that the term nano should apply to any commonly sold pre-manufactured all-in-one tank up to 35 gallons or so. If a person adds a sump or a refugium, I do not think that the added volume should count towards the tank volume for the purpose of determining if it is a nano or not.

If we set the limit at 20-gallons and strictly enforce that limit by redirecting threads, then allot of great threads will end up in the general reefkeeping forums.

Perhaps we could start a sub-forum within the current Nano Reefs forum for systems with a total voulume of 20-gallons or less. We could also add another sub-forum for systems with a total volume of 5 gallons or less. That way we could be inclusive to all "nano" tank keepers and also provide more specific sub-forums.

Gary

 

[Agu]

Regardless of what the original definition of a nono tank was years ago, I feel that the term nano should apply to any commonly sold pre-manufactured all-in-one tank up to 35 gallons or so.

I think that's where a misperception (and efficient marketing) enter the discussion. I've had nanos for six years ( the original 10 gallon is still up and running) and have never owned an all in one tank. All my tanks are standard tanks under ten gallons Under the definition that has evolved they're not "Nano" tanks.

 

[gas4544]

I remember when nano tanks first started to gain popularity. That was before the smaller all-in-one tanks started to show up on the market. To many of us, a nano reef was 10-gallon tank or so. I had two nano tanks that started out as nursery tanks for Bangaii Cardinals. One of them had some montipora and was lit by a Lights of America 65W light from Home Depot.

Since then, the perception of the size of a nano tank has definitely grown in size, due largely to the marketing of larger all-in-one "nano" tanks as pointed out by Agu. As a result, we are finding that there are many different ideas as to just what a nano tank is.

Gary

 

[jaj39a]

It's like I said in my thread in this forum titled bigger than 30gal smaller than 180. There needs to be another forum started here. 30gal and below referred to as a nano forum, and 30gal and abovoe to 180gal as medium size tanks.

 

[EdKruzel]

There are forums for larger tanks, it's called the general forum. There's no debate on when small tanks arrived; as I mentioned there have always been manufacturers of smaller tanks. My first tank was just under 5gals with a steel frame and slate bottom. I also had a 2gal bowel with a red slider. My first saltwater tank was a 30 Hex, which killed quite a bit of livestock before I began to understand the principles of the hobby.

What we're looking at here is the title, "Nano". What's deserving and what's not? I've seen beautiful tanks of all sizes, but the smaller tank (with mature fish and corals) that's thriving gets soooo much more of my respect and admiration that there's no comparing the two. I've had large reefs with all of the bells and whistles, auto top off, DSB, Kalk reactor, etc... That tank was left for over three months with a fish sitter coming in once or twice a week to feed the fish. When I got back some corals were larger and really nothing else; can you get away with that with a nano? Very doubtful.

A nano tank has an owner of skill, dedication and knowledge, and the larger you decide to open the field, the more you diminish or lessen the acknowledgment of those before you. Ask yourself if you have the ability to keep what you want in a lesser volume of water than you currently keep.

 

[gas4544]

I am kinda surprised that we are not getting more participation in this thread. Perhaps it is because this topic is "stickied" at the top of the forum and not being viewed by a variety of posters.

Ed and Agu,

What do you think about my proposal to have subforums for the smaller nano tanks? Would this be too much trouble?

Gary

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

I would have to agree with J. Sprung (he is the smart guy quoted here lol). Anything under 20 or so gallons would be a good description of a nano.

As for mini-nano or pico tanks, i would keep them under 2-3 gallons. Just my $.02

 

[GaryR1984]

I would disagree.

twenty years ago how many people were manufacturing tanks 300gallons and up? What about tanks even 125 gallons and up? Things change over time and we should make changes that would reflect such measures.

Either that, or like said before make a section for people in between. You go to the reef discussion section and the only things that get attention are huge tank builds. Hard to find the 40 breeders for 90 gallon tanks. I think people become discouraged from posting their tanks in that group.

 

[EdKruzel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14079273#post14079273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GaryR1984
I would disagree.

twenty years ago how many people were manufacturing tanks 300gallons and up? What about tanks even 125 gallons and up? Things change over time and we should make changes that would reflect such measures.

That was 1989 and there were plenty of large tank builders. 55 and 125L were the standards and money makers of the pet world. What has changed is the technology with things like the all-in-one systems, so if we (RC) are to change, we should decrease what was a nano (<20gal) to 10 or less. Again the term is one to respect. If everyone could keep a tank thriving, where's the challenge. It would be kind of like how parents now ruin sports with events like scoreless "T" Ball. It's the competition and challenges in life that cause improvement and development.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14079273#post14079273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GaryR1984


Hard to find the 40 breeders for 90 gallon tanks. I think people become discouraged from posting their tanks in that group.

Not sure what you're saying there, but I find most builds get the best participation in the DIY forum.

 

[Agu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14079273#post14079273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GaryR1984
I would disagree.

twenty years ago how many people were manufacturing tanks 300gallons and up? What about tanks even 125 gallons and up? Things change over time and we should make changes that would reflect such measures.

Either that, or like said before make a section for people in between. You go to the reef discussion section and the only things that get attention are huge tank builds. Hard to find the 40 breeders for 90 gallon tanks. I think people become discouraged from posting their tanks in that group.

We've made that change, Large Reef Tanks with a minimum size of 180 gallons.

What we're discussing/proposing is a way to define Nano tanks not by their manufacturers claims but by their size. Those in between fall into the general reef discussion.

 

[gas4544]

Allot of people with tanks between 20 gallons and 30 gallons hang out here in this forum. Yes, I understand how some people believe that a nano reef should be 20-gallons or less.

But do we really want to banish people with tanks bigger than 20-gallons to the General Reef Discussion forum? Sure, we would then have a "genuine nano reef" forum, but participation would drop considerably due to the 20-gallon volume restriction.

Gary

 

[GaryR1984]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14079481#post14079481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Agu
We've made that change, Large Reef Tanks with a minimum size of 180 gallons.

What we're discussing/proposing is a way to define Nano tanks not by their manufacturers claims but by their size. Those in between fall into the general reef discussion.

Perhaps I did a bad job explaining myself.

Under SIG you have Nano and Large Reef Tanks.

Then under regular you have Reef Discussion where I suppose you could post your tank and any other information you want to put there.

You got the DIY Section where yes you would get some attention, but if your not doing a DIY Build what do you post there?

Where should the people who are outside the nano section under your standards go? I think the problem is that you have nowhere to go if you have a tank larger then 20G until you decide to make a large 180+ Gal System.

 

[Agu]

I’ve been wanting a larger sized (28, 34 or bigger) “Nano” tank (read: out-of-the-box, self-contained Unit), as a seperate and additional system ...........

With apologies to the original poster that is not a Nano" tank. Nor are a lot of the nanos posted in this forum. An All in one is not a nano, a small tank is a "nano". That doesn't exclude all in one tanks, it excludes larger tanks no matter their configuration. Realize my frame of reference for large is anything bigger than ten gallons.

And perhaps I poorly explained my opinion,

What we're discussing/proposing is a way to define Nano tanks not by their manufacturers claims but by their size. Those in between fall into the general reef discussion.

In response to ..........

Where should the people who are outside the nano section under your standards go? I think the problem is that you have nowhere to go if you have a tank larger then 20G until you decide to make a large 180+ Gal System.

 

[chrishet]

my 2 cents...as a supporting member for going on 5 years now I spend 98% of my time in this forum. This is the definitive 'Small Tank' forum on the net, period. Perhaps better described as the micro, nano, pico forum. As a previous moderator on another board I would not want to moderate a list that restricts threads based on gallons...that sounds like a lot of work...my suggestion is that we define what a nano/pico/micro is in a sticky and ask members to properly distinguish their systems/threads by these standards, but do not change the policy as to who can post to this thread, that IMO would ruin the usefulness and reputation this list has to a whole lot of folks.

Again, just my humble opinion, and my many thanks to you Moderators who dedicate your time to make this site such a wealth of information for all of us. This thread is an excellent view into what a Moderators role is and I personally appreciate the opportunity to dialog on this subject.

 

[Illuminati]

The largest tank I ever had was a JBJ 28g Nanocube and I would consider it a nano without the name. With that tank there was daily topoffs needed and fish choices are limited.

If the forum had a max tank size of 40 gallons I would be happy. Anything more than that is well beyond a nano but for the larger sized tanks there are techniques, fish selections and aquascaping idea's that can be applied to it's smaller counterparts.

Either way I have a 3g Pico going now and a Biocube 8 being setup so i guess I'm in regardless

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14068642#post14068642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EdKruzel
My hat is off to the many of you that keep tanks in that small of a range for any period of time.

I have to agree with you here Ed. My 2.5 was running for 3 1/2 years, maybe 4 when I finally dismantled it. In that period of time, it had to be completley redone twice, new sand and LR due to overgrowth of certain corals and hydroids, as well as a tulip aka mojano anemone explosion. In such a small environment it is much more difficult to have long term success ie. many years with mature corals that are still thriving in that small space.

:sad1: You mean my 30 cube is not a nano!!:sad1: I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! :dance: I still lurk....

 

[Whacked]

seems to me that Nano's are tanks with display volume of 40g or less.
Mostly 'cause the 40B are a bit odd size in that its to big for the 'less than 20g=nano crowd' and too small for the normal size tanks (55-125ish).

Cadlights has a 39g AIO. would that be considered a nano or because its a AIO its a different animal? To me it would be both.
However the new RSM250 would fit the AIO and large tank rule

to my knowledge Pico's has always referred to the display of less than 3g

just my opinion anyhow