Nanostream 6045 flow performance...What's Up? The 6025 Rocks!!!

[skydancer]

I bought a Nanostream 6025 three months ago and must admit, IMO the product is excellent. It looked just like the pictures, elegant, small, moved quite a bit of water and I was very happy. Based on the 6025’s performance and Tunze’s reputation, I placed an order for two 6045 and to be honest I couldn’t wait to get them. They arrived in mid January/07 (Premium Aquatics very first shipment). I plugged them in and run “fine”. A day later I stuck my hands in the tank to do some maintenance and I noticed that the 6045 was not as “strong” as the 6025. I was surprised. So I started the thread below.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...hreadid=1024513

Tunze took ownership of the issue and said that the 6045s I owned may be defective and would send me new ones. I plugged the replacement 6045s in, and the only difference was that my original tow 6045 pumps were drawing 5 watts and the replacements were drawing 6 watts. Tunze asked me to send all four of the 6045 back. After “testing” them they said that now the replacement 6045s were operating properly and no further action was necessary.

I decided to evaluate the flow on all 3 pumps myself and once I set up an “elaborate” (anybody can do it) test set up I came up with the following flow summary between the 6025 and 6045 pumps. My findings coincided with Tunze’s comments from a couple of weeks ago when they told me: "The 6025 performs a little above the 660GPH flow spec and the 6045 performs a little below the 1189GPH flow spec."

I was asked by a few people to describe the set up I used to perform the flow measurement, so here is my setup. Maybe some of you would like to replicate it and take your own measurements, so we can compare notes.
I started with a 5 gal Home Depot plastic bucket.

I used a Dremel and drilled a hole at the bottom of the bucket so I could fit the nose of the nanostream thru it.

With the nanostream in place, I filled the bucket with water (ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP). Then I measured and emptied 3 gallons of water out of the bucket and marked the level of water left in the bucket.
Then I filled the bathtub with water. The tub’s water level was high enough to submerge the 5gal bucket.

I turned on the nanostream. The pump was running and the bucket was staying full as it was submerged in the bathtub.
With a stopwatch at hand (get someone to help…)
Using both hands I lifted the bucket a bit until the tub water level was just above the bucket’s top. I started the time and measured the time it took the pump to empty the 3 gallons of water out of the bucket.
NOTE: IN ORDER TO AVOID CREATING ANY HEAD PRESSURE ON THE PUMP, AS THE PUMP EMPTIES THE WATER OUT OF THE BUCKET, YOU MUST HOLD THE BUCKET WITH BOTH HANDS AND RAISE IT SLOWLY, SO THAT THE WATER LEVEL INSIDE THE BUCKET IS AT THE SAME WATER LEVEL AS OUTSIDE OF THE BUCKET (tub water level).
Using this method, I took 9 flow measurements on each of the two different pumps, and discarded the highest and lowest two measurements from each group.

Nanostream 6025 Flow Measurements: (Measured Flow in GPH / Performance against the published 660GPH spec):
726gph / 110.0%, 724gph / 109.7%, 716gph / 108.4%, 685gph / 103.8%, 676gph / 102.5%
For an average of: 705.6GPH and 107% performance against the published 660GPH spec. The nanostream 6025 ROCKS!!!

Nanostream 6045 Flow Measurement: (Measured Flow in GPH / Performance against the published 1189GPH spec):
957gph / 81%, 946gph / 80%, 936gph / 79%, 895gph / 75%, 890gph / 75%
For an average of: 924.8GPH and 78% performance against the published 1189GPH spec.
Based on the above, I'm of the opinion that if the transformer in the 6045 would draw 7 watts instead of the actual 6 watts (although the 6045 spec calls for 7W), the 6045 pump would increase the propeller speed and be able to pump the spec'ed 1189 GPH and actually exceed the spec.

Can you ladies and gents share your opinions? Has anyone performed any flow tests on the 6045? I’m still puzzled about the published Tunze spec calling for the 6045 power draw at 7 Watts and why mine are drawing 6W. Has anyone plugged in a kill-a-watt device to measure the amperage draw on your 6045?

Thank you all for your replies. Looking forward to your comments.

 

[atvdave]

Don't know... but I'm tagging along.

I was going to get the 6045's as soon as PA got some in stock. Think I may wait to see what happens here.

 

[mattboy]

This thread is just what I need; I'm really interested in anyone who has direct comparison of the flow between the 6025 and 6045. Right now I'm using 2 6025s in a 50 gallon corner tank; thinking about 6045s. My main concern is that the water speed coming out of the pump outlet on the 6045 must be faster, right? The pumps are exactly the same size, therefore any increase in flow in the 6045 must be due to water exiting the pump faster.

 

[skydancer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9226914#post9226914 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattboy
This thread is just what I need; I'm really interested in anyone who has direct comparison of the flow between the 6025 and 6045. Right now I'm using 2 6025s in a 50 gallon corner tank; thinking about 6045s. My main concern is that the water speed coming out of the pump outlet on the 6045 must be faster, right? The pumps are exactly the same size, therefore any increase in flow in the 6045 must be due to water exiting the pump faster.

According to my test you'll get the advertized flow with the 6025. The 6045 is a different story...

Let's see what the 6045 owners say about their pump's flow.

 

[skydancer]

Interesting observation...

Interesting observation...

Below is the Tunze Nanostream brochure I got 3-4 months ago from the Tunze's booth at MAGNA in Houston.

...and since you can't read the fine print... here is a close up...

As you can see back in September/06 Tunze advertized that the 6045 would pull 8 Watts... right???

Now let's see what the Tunze website is telling us now (took the picture today)...

Surprise!!! Yep, TUNZE changed the specs to 7 Watts. Now don't tell me that Tunze didn't test the 6045 pump under 110V/60Hz conditions, before they published this spec.
After all, the United States... (YES you and I ) is Tunze's largest market.

Let's see how long it takes TUNZE to change the flow specs on the 6045 to what it should be...

I personally reject paying $200 for two 6045 pumps that don't deliver the flow. I don't know about you, but I want my money back.

Will somebody prove me wrong??? Any more 6045 flow measurements out there?

 

[keinreis]

things change a lot from concept to prototype to production! so you are saying that since their initial tests on their concept pumps pulled 8w that it is wrong that their production pumps pull less? you do know things are subject to a lot of changes from initial tests to final production right? The company I work for has been working on the release of a new line of bilge pumps ( for boats) and I am all to familiar with the way changes happen during testing phase. amp draws, and flow rates are subject to change from a minor modification. Our initial pre production pumps that we took specs off of for initial advertising did not match the final production pumps exactly either. It is all part of development of a product. that flyer is not a legal document and in no way says that those specs are not allowed to change slightly. your other arguments have been somewhat valid with the flow tests, but this flyer argument holds no water. This forum seems to have been turned into your playground for bashing Tunze, and Rodger. Why don't you just return your 6045's and move on to another product that you feel works for you? I know bashing and personal attacks on a company will not get you any help. I figured since the mods will likely lock this I would break their rules as you have and rant a bit.

 

[skydancer]

Yes, I would like to return them, but Tunze says the 6045 are operating propely. How would you suggest I go about returning them?

To the rest of your comments, I will not repsond, as are not appropriate.

 

[keinreis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9247280#post9247280 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
Yes, I would like to return them, but Tunze says the 6045 are operating propely. How would you suggest I go about returning them?

To the rest of your comments, I will not repsond, as are not appropriate.

:lol: :lol: :lol: pot calling the kettle black huh?

 

[twon8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9247280#post9247280 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
Yes, I would like to return them, but Tunze says the 6045 are operating propely. How would you suggest I go about returning them?

To the rest of your comments, I will not repsond, as are not appropriate.

im sure there are lots of people who would buy them off of you.

 

[flipteg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9247242#post9247242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by keinreis
This forum seems to have been turned into your playground for bashing Tunze, and Rodger.

i agree with that... in my experience, Roger has been very fair at dealing with problems in their products... but you have to be fair to the company too if you want them to treat you right... it seems over the edge that every post that you make in the Tunze forum is all about over emphasizing Tunze's mistakes on initial production units...

 

[skydancer]

I spoke to Premium Aquatics and they gave me an RA # to send the two 6045s back. Thank you PA. It's all good...

As far as the flow measurements on the 6025 vs 6045, I thought you all wanted to be informed consumers.

As well deserved, I gave praise to the 6025 flow performance. The 6025 is an awesome pump. IMO, the best 700GPH pump in the market today. I highly recommend it, and by the way, I kept mine.

I wrote the truth on the 6045 flow performance for those of you that wanted to know. Not a single 6045 owner came out to dispute my measurements. I described the method I used and the expense involved in doing the measurement, but nobody was willing to sacrifice a Home Depot 5-gal bucket.

On the pump's wattage, I bet most of you didn't know that the wattage on the 6045 published spec had changed. I never said that Tunze did not have the right to make revisions to their specs. On the contrary, that is the only way that products get improved. What I made note of was that:
All else being equal with the 6045 pump, by changing the transformer to a smaller wattage would cause the prop to turn slower and create less flow.

Off to the sunset now. I hope I was able to contribute some facts and information to all of us.
Goodnight and good luck...

 

[flipteg]

yea, being informed is good... that's what you did in the start of this thread... you should have just presented your findings, left it at that, and let the readers decide if they should base their opinions about Tunze from YOUR data... but when you keep posting the same information over and over again, with what seems like implying that Tunze is deliberately deceiving it's customers, it is unfair... you even reply to other people's thread only to bring up your same point again... yes, the Nano Streams had problems with initial production, but what makes Tunze a good company is the fact that they back up their products... Roger even admitted that there was problems with the first units... would you call that deception...?

what do you expect potential buyers to think when you keep over emphazising the negatives of the company... you're just taking away Tunze's chances to prove themselves to future customers.... nevertheless, you post all that in the "Tunze" forum...

i can understand your situation if a company would not honor their workmanship, but if you want to be treated right, you have to be fair to them too...

from what i have experienced, and from the numerous posts that i have read about people's positive comments, Tunze is a good company...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9255934#post9255934 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
As well deserved, I gave praise to the 6025 flow performance. The 6025 is an awesome pump. IMO, the best 700GPH pump in the market today. I highly recommend it, and by the way, I kept mine.

I wrote the truth on the 6045 flow performance for those of you that wanted to know. Not a single 6045 owner came out to dispute my measurements. I described the method I used and the expense involved in doing the measurement, but nobody was willing to sacrifice a Home Depot 5-gal bucket.

of course you're gonna say that... it's all about psychological thinking... you know you're posting in the Tunze forum, and that's to protect yourself from being flamed too badly and also to protect some of your credibility...

just because no one is willing to back up or dispute your findings doesn't necessarily mean that you have proven your arguement... from what i got out of it, it seems like you're just challenging Tunze users to prove you wrong... and if no one steps up to YOUR "challenge", Tunze should automatically be assumed to be deceiving its customers...

if people want to do the test, you wouldn't have to tell them... they will do it...

 

[jacmyoung]

I like to thank skydancer for the information he presented. Certainly it is one man's opinion but based on a reasonable test method. Until someone can dispute his numbers, I will hold off changing my 6025s to 6045s.

Roger's customer service is unparalleled. After replacing my first two 6025s the newer ones appear to have solved the noise and broken shaft problems.

I am tempted to mod one of my 6025s to see how much flow increase I can get at this point.

I don't know if skydancer you will be willing to mod one of your 6025s and test it again?

 

[atvdave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9260602#post9260602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacmyoung

I am tempted to mod one of my 6025s to see how much flow increase I can get at this point.

Do you have a link to this MOD?

 

[twon8]

i haven't been able to get my hands on a 6045, once i do i will post here.

 

[Fishbulb2]

My understanding is that with AC pumps they all spin at the same speed based on the alternating current. The watt and current draws only determine how large of a prop or impeller the pump can drive. Does it even matter that tunze deceased the power draw? I don't think it effected the flow at all unless the prop was modified or it doesn't turn altogether. I do applaud you though for doing your test and when I receive my 6045 next week I will replicate it on my own 5 gallon bucket. Great work but I don't beleive the watts are the issue. It must be something else.
FB

 

[jacmyoung]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9260784#post9260784 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by atvdave
Do you have a link to this MOD?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1025361