Need a SurgeTank expert advice
- Thread starter DOGGIE750
- Start date
When I ran my surge tank a 225, I used a 25 gallon container and got a very good surge.
If you can try different size tanks. I also used 1 1/2 pipe for my surge return.
I really liked this tank, fish and corals really liked the surge, but got tired of the salt spray.
If I were to do it again I would put a glass cover on the tank
If you can try different size tanks. I also used 1 1/2 pipe for my surge return.
I really liked this tank, fish and corals really liked the surge, but got tired of the salt spray.
If I were to do it again I would put a glass cover on the tank
Surge tanks will have a overflow drain back to the sump. The only issue that I have would be the calibration. This would take a lot of time since I have 2 surge tanks.
See my set up here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2489483
CyclistMT
More Idiot Than Savant
In my experience I have found that a good rule of thumb for the surge tank to get a decent dwell time and flow throughout the tank is to use a surge tank that is at least 10% of the tank volume.
If you we're going to use 20 gal totes on each side AND fire them at the same time, you might get away with that but the 20 gal totes are going to empty somewhat fast (lower dwell time). Also, you won't be using all 20 gals because the totes won't fully fill.
I think the biggest difficulty you will encounter is getting enough velocity of water to make it the entire length of the 96" tank. If you have the room I would suggest a 50 gal breeder tank on each end for the surge. Fire each surge separately and you'll get a nice back and forth flow in the tank. I would also plan for slack time between the surges.
There are a lot of ways to customize the flow too. The higher above the tank the surge tanks are, the more velocity you can get with the flow. The smaller the effluent pipe you use, the longer the surge will be but in a more narrow flow pattern.
I had minimal space above my tank for my surge so I used 2" effluent pipe reduced to 1.5" right at the bulkhead into the main tank to increase the velocity. I'm using a 30 gal surge tank (probably surging 25 gals) on a 300 gal tank. I get good velocity in the 5' length and probably about 12"-18" wide flow that spreads out but slows as it advances through the tank.
I did the tote+flapper valve surge on my 150. It worked great but I eventually got tired of the salt spray (you will too, trust me).
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1037854
So on my 300 I went with a actuated ball valve. Hands down this is the BEST way to run a surge. Absolutely bubbleless. Yes, it's a bit spendy and you're considering 2 of them. But look at it this way, if you don't do the surge, you'll need a Vortech, Tunze, Jeabo, etc. on each side of this tank so you just need to factor in the cost difference between these methods. But one thing you can't do with any of those pumps is replicated a surge. See the video in post 144 for the surge in action.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2022040
One more thing to be mindful of, design your sump to hold all the water in both surges and all your piping in the event of a power failure. Murphy will surely decide at that time that both your surges will be totally empty so all the water will be in your sump.
@ ace_921010, using a surge with auto top off is simple. You need a double switch controller with a latching relay. Set the bottom switch at the lowest point you want your sump to be (surge tank full and 1"-2" below the normal water level for the sump but before the pumps suck air of course) and the top switch at the level in the sump with the surge tank empty when running normal water level in the sump. Once the sump level activates the lower switch, the auto top off will run until it fills the sump enough to activate the top switch (latching relay).
If you we're going to use 20 gal totes on each side AND fire them at the same time, you might get away with that but the 20 gal totes are going to empty somewhat fast (lower dwell time). Also, you won't be using all 20 gals because the totes won't fully fill.
I think the biggest difficulty you will encounter is getting enough velocity of water to make it the entire length of the 96" tank. If you have the room I would suggest a 50 gal breeder tank on each end for the surge. Fire each surge separately and you'll get a nice back and forth flow in the tank. I would also plan for slack time between the surges.
There are a lot of ways to customize the flow too. The higher above the tank the surge tanks are, the more velocity you can get with the flow. The smaller the effluent pipe you use, the longer the surge will be but in a more narrow flow pattern.
I had minimal space above my tank for my surge so I used 2" effluent pipe reduced to 1.5" right at the bulkhead into the main tank to increase the velocity. I'm using a 30 gal surge tank (probably surging 25 gals) on a 300 gal tank. I get good velocity in the 5' length and probably about 12"-18" wide flow that spreads out but slows as it advances through the tank.
I did the tote+flapper valve surge on my 150. It worked great but I eventually got tired of the salt spray (you will too, trust me).
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1037854
So on my 300 I went with a actuated ball valve. Hands down this is the BEST way to run a surge. Absolutely bubbleless. Yes, it's a bit spendy and you're considering 2 of them. But look at it this way, if you don't do the surge, you'll need a Vortech, Tunze, Jeabo, etc. on each side of this tank so you just need to factor in the cost difference between these methods. But one thing you can't do with any of those pumps is replicated a surge. See the video in post 144 for the surge in action.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2022040
One more thing to be mindful of, design your sump to hold all the water in both surges and all your piping in the event of a power failure. Murphy will surely decide at that time that both your surges will be totally empty so all the water will be in your sump.
@ ace_921010, using a surge with auto top off is simple. You need a double switch controller with a latching relay. Set the bottom switch at the lowest point you want your sump to be (surge tank full and 1"-2" below the normal water level for the sump but before the pumps suck air of course) and the top switch at the level in the sump with the surge tank empty when running normal water level in the sump. Once the sump level activates the lower switch, the auto top off will run until it fills the sump enough to activate the top switch (latching relay).
FWIW, I played around with lots of different kinds of surge tanks back in the late-90's. Never could make them work particularly well - and they sent salt spray everywhere, so be prepared for that. Frankly, if one can stomach the entry fee, I think a modern wave pump is better.
dave.m
Active member
Another way of handling ATO would be two sumps, one to manage the initial influx of water from the surge tanks dumping, and a second lower sump that would maintain a more regular water level. The second sump's continuous level is more amenable to the needs of an in-sump skimmer. It would be where you set your level switches for the ATO.
All this requires a fish room, of course. You wouldn't have room under the tank.
Dave.M
All this requires a fish room, of course. You wouldn't have room under the tank.
Dave.M
Dunno that it needs to be even that complicated. When I ran surge (dump) buckets, I simply placed my float to trigger once the water level in the sump fell below a certain level when the buckets were full. A three baffle bubble trap protects the float against waves in the sump as a consequence of variable drain flow. No biggie really.
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
I run a 26g surge tank off a second story balcony into a 400g tank 96x33x29.
I use 2" pipe with 3 90 sweeps into one end of the tank. I originally built a modified Carlson surge. With no moving parts it ran for 10 years and never failed. I engineered it so it was virtually silent. But there was still an issue with bubbles with each surge.
About 2 years ago I found the Hayward motorized ball valve online at a reasonable price and bought one to play with. The Ball valve and a time delay relay and I was ready to go.
The Valve operated surge is beautiful.... Absolutely silent, no bubbles, no salt spray.
My Surge tank is 30g and I get about 26g of water in a surge time of about 7-8 seconds. It pushes current all the way across the 8' tank. The surge cycles about every 90 seconds.
I also have an ATO system. The surge played havoc with the float switches in the sump. I used my Apex, and shut the ATO off when the surge is running. I don't run my surge 24/7. On the weekdays it runs once a hour for about 5 minutes. Then is on from 5pm to 11pm. On the weekends it runs all day long. I have different electric rates for different times of day. So I run the surge pump around those different rate hours to try to save on my utilities.
With the Apex only running the TOP OFF when the surge is off, I got much better control of my top off system.
During the summer time, since the majority of my system is outside, I have breaks during the day in the surge running so that the top off can keep up.
The fish and corals love the surge. Having played with all kinds of pumps available in the industry, there is nothing that comes close to the power of gravity pulling water down a 2" pipe from 10' up.
Dave B
I use 2" pipe with 3 90 sweeps into one end of the tank. I originally built a modified Carlson surge. With no moving parts it ran for 10 years and never failed. I engineered it so it was virtually silent. But there was still an issue with bubbles with each surge.
About 2 years ago I found the Hayward motorized ball valve online at a reasonable price and bought one to play with. The Ball valve and a time delay relay and I was ready to go.
The Valve operated surge is beautiful.... Absolutely silent, no bubbles, no salt spray.
My Surge tank is 30g and I get about 26g of water in a surge time of about 7-8 seconds. It pushes current all the way across the 8' tank. The surge cycles about every 90 seconds.
I also have an ATO system. The surge played havoc with the float switches in the sump. I used my Apex, and shut the ATO off when the surge is running. I don't run my surge 24/7. On the weekdays it runs once a hour for about 5 minutes. Then is on from 5pm to 11pm. On the weekends it runs all day long. I have different electric rates for different times of day. So I run the surge pump around those different rate hours to try to save on my utilities.
With the Apex only running the TOP OFF when the surge is off, I got much better control of my top off system.
During the summer time, since the majority of my system is outside, I have breaks during the day in the surge running so that the top off can keep up.
The fish and corals love the surge. Having played with all kinds of pumps available in the industry, there is nothing that comes close to the power of gravity pulling water down a 2" pipe from 10' up.
Dave B
Similar threads
