Need advice Maroon Clown Pairing Issue

rjallen

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All

I have a mixed reef 120 gallons. Tank is populated by 7 fish at this time. One of my main objectives with this reef was to have a pair of Maroon Clowns hosted by a BTA. I am very very far from my "LFS"...136 miles one way. It is decent shop of mostly fresh water tanks, some birds and reptiles. Maybe 5 tanks salt water. A good owner but livestock is fairly expensive with limited selection.

I ordered a mated pair of Maroon Clowns and a GBT Anemone from a California Mail Order operation. Got a medium sized female and a small male. They were beautiful specimens and appeared healthy. I acclimated them to a small QT,gave them a fresh water dip and placed them in the tank. The pair, shipped in separate bags, immediately reunited. They were truly a mated pair. Both ate immediately and all was good for two days. I kept my chemistry within acceptable parameters with daily small water changes. Temps btw 77-78f Ammonia, NO2 showing a trace, no NO3. SP 1.024-1.025. Very low light. Moderate current from a HOB filter and a small powerhead. PVC for hiding. Bare bottom and no other tankmates.

After 3 days I planned to use Paraguard treatment for 7 days but had not started when I noticed in the evening of the 3rd day the larger female was not well with a couple of spots of a white film- mucus? on the body. Fins clamped. I did a 30 minute dip bath with paraguard and returned her to the QT tank. The smaller male showed no signs of trouble. The female seems to feel better. Before work the next day I did another paraguard dip and went to work. I added an airstone to the QT. I also did a water change and lowered SP to 1.020 and then added Paraquard to the QT at Seachem's dosage instructions.

I have some experience with velvet and ich and it didn't look like either. There also some redness on the female's body along with more mucus patches. I ordered cooper, antibiotics and a couple of other remedies. I suspected Brook and knew the male would soon develop the same symptoms.
I had to go on a business trip for 2 days. That night my wife called and said the female had passed away the male still looked fine. She did a 50% water change and renewed the paraguard. The retailer promptly credited my card with 1/2 of the mated pair price. I don't know what killed this fish. If it had been Brook, I am sure the male would have contracted it as well

The male survived and flourished the next 4 weeks in QT. I also treated him serially with Prazi and a fresh dip. He is now in the DT and is hosted by the GBT Anemone purchased at the same time.

Here is my question. Sorry for such a long winded explanation. The little male is already showing some growth. I still want a pair of Clowns hosted by an anemone. As I see it my choices are:
1. Purchase a medium size replacement hoping its a female and hope for the best. Can I be certain a medium sized Maroon is a female? How long will it take to my little male to turn?
2. Purchase a small Maroon hoping it is a male and let the fish sort out the sexual maturity thing. Same questions as above.
3. Sell/ give the little male to that "local" LFS 136 miles away. They would probably take him but then I would feel pushed to purchase a pair ordered by the LFS and would have to take whatever came into the store. I could stay strong and just order another pair from the online retailer. They have already offered to keep the next pair in a observation tank and watch the pair for a couple of weeks before shipping.
4. Get another pair and another BT- possibly red this time and hope everyone gets along....yeah right....I have a 120 not a 1200 gallon set up. The small single male could go into the refugium until I found a home for him. I do not know any serious reefers in this oil boom town.

I have read several threads regarding clown pairing especially the part how difficult Maroon Clowns can be. So I am asking for help expecially from anyone
with experience with Maroon pairs.

Thanks
RJ Allen
 
He should still be male for awhile I'd expect... So I think your best bet would be to see if you can find a female that is 2.5-3inches, sooner the better.

Finding one half his size would be harder, and if they are too close in size it will cause them to fight too much. Thus, finding a female at least twice his size would be your best chance.

Getting another pair is an option, and it would save you the trouble of pairing them up yourself, but you would have to move the one you have. Three maroons just wouldn't get along.

It took about a month of work to get my very first pair of gold bar maroons to pair up, just had to take it slow.
 
He should still be male for awhile I'd expect... So I think your best bet would be to see if you can find a female that is 2.5-3inches, sooner the better.

Finding one half his size would be harder, and if they are too close in size it will cause them to fight too much. Thus, finding a female at least twice his size would be your best chance.

Getting another pair is an option, and it would save you the trouble of pairing them up yourself, but you would have to move the one you have. Three maroons just wouldn't get along.

It took about a month of work to get my very first pair of gold bar maroons to pair up, just had to take it slow.


Thanks BengalReefer

I think your suggested course would be the best under almost all circumstances. But as you said, "the sooner the better". If I order tomorrow and the online store [they have a brick & mortar presence in S Californa and are well known for their "Vivid" corals] places the fish under observatiion for 2 weeks, and my QT stay is 4 weeks, now I am 6 more weeks down the road. Do you think I have that much time?

BTW, I was very impressed with this retailer. Even after shipping my female Maroon Clown was a beautiful specimum as is the little male. They helped with advice when I notified them the fish was sick and volunteered to send medication at a lower than normal shipping charge. They even inquired via email. I could not have picked a better fish so I cannot fault them. It appears some of their stock moves quite fast through their facility thus their idea of holding my next Maroon for observation.

RJ Allen
 
That is excellent news about the service, I've heard good things before. Wish all online orders, or even most lfs were so nicely handled!

He shouldn't change sex in the next two months, so you should be fine. He won't start to change until he has grown some more, he's still fairly you g at that size. Just ask them to send you one close that is 3" or more. If possible, can you QT her next to your DT? Ideally if you can place her right against the tank so that they can see each other it will help start the introduction process.
 
That is excellent news about the service, I've heard good things before. Wish all online orders, or even most lfs were so nicely handled!

He shouldn't change sex in the next two months, so you should be fine. He won't start to change until he has grown some more, he's still fairly you g at that size. Just ask them to send you one close that is 3" or more. If possible, can you QT her next to your DT? Ideally if you can place her right against the tank so that they can see each other it will help start the introduction process.

BengalReefer

Sounds like a plan. I'll talk with the online company this week and see what they have to say. I would like to keep my little fellow. I will post what are their recommendations. Thanks for the help. If anyone else has anything to add I would like to hear from you, especially if you have experiences with pairing Maroons.

RJ Allen
 
You're welcome!

The one other option would be to just keep this one and let him grow larger and turn female, then order a new small male, but that would take a while...

I'll be interested to know what input the company has on it.

Good luck!!
 
You're welcome!

The one other option would be to just keep this one and let him grow larger and turn female, then order a new small male, but that would take a while...

I'll be interested to know what input the company has on it.

Good luck!!

Talked with the company that provided the first pair of clowns. They are willing to ship a larger fish but cannot guarantee that the fish is even a female. Said the larger fish have unknown age and a large medium could possibly be an older Clown that lost its even larger female. Most of their singles are fish that lost their mate or rejected pairing with a mate. Even if the fish is an older female, they seem to lose interest in pairing after a certain age. The fish are wild caught and of unknown age. The employee estimated, with Maroons, I would have a 30% chance of success pairing my little male with a random larger Clown.

So know, I am back to square 1, I don't like the odds of 30% chance of success.
 
I can't say for certain, as I've only paired up the one set, but I would think that 30% is low... If you are willing to take a month or more to slowly introduce them I think you could get better results. If the one you get is a male, that should be fine as once he establishes his dominance he should change to female.

But, if you don't feel like testing it, then your options are either A) find a new home for your male and buy a new pair or B) go on with your tank and let your male grow. Once he reaches like 2-2.5inches then order a new small 1-1.5inch male and pair them.
 
Thanks BengalReefer

I think I need more input. I do know Maroons have a notorious rep. for being difficult to pair. I have heard horror stories about frayed fins and dead fish. Is there anyone else with experience?
 
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