Need Advice - Thinking About Starting Over

[Ostri]

Looks very new and it's taking its course. Don't be freaked out by algae they are part of the whole process. Also the tradition thinking of "if I see algae theres gotta be excessive nutrients" is false. In many cases nuisance algae is caused by biological imbalance, which tends to occur during the early stages of the tank.

 

[Myka]

But I dose BioDigest twice per month without the Bioptim and I'm super happy with the results.

I've used both these products together, and also just the BioDigest alone as Frank does, and it's a top notch product.

I've also used Zeovit before, and found it really finicky. It's great for people with OCD tendencies, and no so great for the average Joe imho. I've been using the Aquaforest method since April, and I find it much more user friendly than Zeovit and easier to achieve good results. Of course the KISS method works just fine too.

 

[Tom39]

I agree with this comment 100%. So why not use it to your advantage instead of fighting it. An algae turf scrubber will resolve this matter in a few weeks and for the rest of the life of the tank.
Many scoff at the upfront costs but with the remedies tried and suggested, the cost of a ats pays for itself in the long run.
Tom G



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[Patrick Cox]

I agree with this comment 100%. So why not use it to your advantage instead of fighting it. An algae turf scrubber will resolve this matter in a few weeks and for the rest of the life of the tank.
Many scoff at the upfront costs but with the remedies tried and suggested, the cost of a ats pays for itself in the long run.
Tom G



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Hello,
Thanks for your reply. I was actually considering this if I decide to move away from carbon dosing. So let me ask a couple of questions...

1. How does turning on an ATS make the tank algae go away? Is the ATS able to outcompete the tank algae for nutrients?

2. What is the best off the shelf ATS for home aquariums? I feel like I have seen a website but can't find it.

Thanks.

 

[Tom39]

The style of ATS that I use is one similar to those seen on Turbo Aquatics website. The guy who owns the company is Bud Carlson. Super nice guy who is willing to help you out even if you don't buy one of his units. Here is a link to his website: http://www.turbosaquatics.com
The site explains how they work and what results you should expect to see.

Tom G

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[Peter Eichler]

I agree with Peter in that kole tangs aren't as good as zembrosas but still help and you won't have to pull out a large bully fish in a few years. Also red leg hermits are another good algae eater, but they get stuck in my acros so often I don't keep them anymore. I only keep snails now. Also agree with what he said about letting the tank mature, very well put.
Mazzei injected skimmers are great! As long as you are maintaining your air intake with flushes and cleanings every now and then your fine. I would say that the tank ratings are a little off but so is every other skimmer to some point. Skimmer choice boils down to preference imo. Unless your undersized or something, mazzei injectors have been proven and work very well, which I am sure you realize since you researched the topic before buying the skimmer. Which model do you have? I am currently running mazzei injectors and needle wheels on the same skimmer and it's really working well.
Peter I don't see how life reef skimmers don't work as well as any modern skimmer. Pump size, power draw, and things like have nothing to do with how well a skimmer works and consistency of mazzei injected skimmers is flawless as long as they are ran properly. As to the cult like following, nearly every skimmer on the market has a long thread with people pushing why it's the best product, so nothing different there. I would say their skimmer body could be updated but works fine. A wider body would do these skimmers s bit of good imo.

Shorter dwell time in the skimmer, more water and less air adds up to a lower performing skimmer in my opinion. Yes, there are a lot of other factors, but after testing my old life reef, which was rated for a much bigger tank, with a reef octopus with a mesh wheel some years ago, the far cheaper reef octopus seemed to out perform the lifereef by a pretty noticeable margin. Again, this probably isn't a big factor in how the tank is doing, but is something to keep in mind.

As for the carbon dosing, I would simply stop and let the system adapt, but there is no one here that can truly answer if it's best to ween the tank of go cold turkey. If you are driving certain nutrients too low for the corals to be healthy, then by adding even smaller doses of carbon you're just adding to the problem.

Good luck!

 

[Myka]

Hello,
Thanks for your reply. I was actually considering this if I decide to move away from carbon dosing.

Why do you think you need either? My tank is stocked to the tits, I feed heavily, I do not carbon dose (I add bacteria, but not carbon), I don't even use GFO, and my nutrients are barely readable (N <0.5 ppm, P <0.015). All I use is a big arse skimmer, lots of good flow, a well stocked clean up crew, and good maintenance practices. No fancy gadgets - my sump is empty besides the skimmer that takes up most of the real estate.

Sometimes small things make a big difference, and not always for the good. For example, I added a Gyre to my tank. My tank is only 36" long so the Gyre significantly changed the flow in the tank. It took me awhile to adjust to this, and the livestock too. The Gyre collects junk/detritus below it, and that area had a hair algae outbreak even though there is hardly a whiff of nutrients in the water column. I adjusted the rock a bit, and the other powerheads. The algae cycled out. No big deal. This is part of reef keeping. Read through any of the big SPS journals on here and you will read about a hair algae or cyano outbreak here and there - lots of people with bubble algae. These are all seasoned reefers. These things annoy us, but we make little adjustments and carry on. :bounce2:

 

[Patrick Cox]

Well, I have been a bit busy and have not made it to the LFS but hope to go today. So I have been looking at a Scopas Tang. Would that Tang be OK for my tank and should I go ahead and add an algae eating fish now or should I just wait and only add more CUC? I also have a Potter's angel on my list. Would I be able to add this fish later with a Scopas in there?

Thanks!

 

[Patrick Cox]

Why do you think you need either? My tank is stocked to the tits, I feed heavily, I do not carbon dose (I add bacteria, but not carbon), I don't even use GFO, and my nutrients are barely readable (N <0.5 ppm, P <0.015). All I use is a big arse skimmer, lots of good flow, a well stocked clean up crew, and good maintenance practices. No fancy gadgets - my sump is empty besides the skimmer that takes up most of the real estate.

Sometimes small things make a big difference, and not always for the good. For example, I added a Gyre to my tank. My tank is only 36" long so the Gyre significantly changed the flow in the tank. It took me awhile to adjust to this, and the livestock too. The Gyre collects junk/detritus below it, and that area had a hair algae outbreak even though there is hardly a whiff of nutrients in the water column. I adjusted the rock a bit, and the other powerheads. The algae cycled out. No big deal. This is part of reef keeping. Read through any of the big SPS journals on here and you will read about a hair algae or cyano outbreak here and there - lots of people with bubble algae. These are all seasoned reefers. These things annoy us, but we make little adjustments and carry on. :bounce2:

Well, that is a good question. I guess because I have in my mind that I need to do something to keep algae in check. I guess that is not necessarily the case. Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[Myka]

Well, I have been a bit busy and have not made it to the LFS but hope to go today. So I have been looking at a Scopas Tang. Would that Tang be OK for my tank and should I go ahead and add an algae eating fish now or should I just wait and only add more CUC? I also have a Potter's angel on my list. Would I be able to add this fish later with a Scopas in there?

Thanks!

Is the Foxface still in your tank? He's not in the last picture, but maybe he's behind the rocks. What else do you want to add? If you want to add any more docile fish I might wait on the Tang and Angel and add them last. I've met some real nasty Scopas and Kole Tangs - of the small Tangs I've found Tomini and Convict to be friendlier. Depends what else you want to add.

EDIT: I just re-read your first post and see you removed the Foxface. If you liked the One-Spot Foxface, I'd suggest you put one back in. Ime, a Foxface usually makes more of a dent in any algae than most Tangs (certainly more than any of the smaller Tangs).

Well, that is a good question. I guess because I have in my mind that I need to do something to keep algae in check. I guess that is not necessarily the case. Thanks for your suggestions!

At the risk of sounding like a real life drama series narrator, a good CUC can be a game-changer! :lol:

 

[Patrick Cox]

Is the Foxface still in your tank? He's not in the last picture, but maybe he's behind the rocks. What else do you want to add? If you want to add any more docile fish I might wait on the Tang and Angel and add them last. I've met some real nasty Scopas and Kole Tangs - of the small Tangs I've found Tomini and Convict to be friendlier. Depends what else you want to add.

EDIT: I just re-read your first post and see you removed the Foxface. If you liked the One-Spot Foxface, I'd suggest you put one back in. Ime, a Foxface usually makes more of a dent in any algae than most Tangs (certainly more than any of the smaller Tangs).



At the risk of sounding like a real life drama series narrator, a good CUC can be a game-changer! :lol:

Correct, I removed the FoxFace. Actually the Foxface would not eat the algae in my tank so I removed him as I did not want the extra nutrients from feeding him. Hindsight maybe that was not necessary but I would prefer a fish that will eat the algae in my tank if possible. I guess I'll just add CUC for now and be patient and then consider more fish later.

 

[Myka]

Correct, I removed the FoxFace. Actually the Foxface would not eat the algae in my tank so I removed him as I did not want the extra nutrients from feeding him. Hindsight maybe that was not necessary but I would prefer a fish that will eat the algae in my tank if possible. I guess I'll just add CUC for now and be patient and then consider more fish later.

Sometimes it's tough to find a fish that will eat a particular type of algae. Foxfaces are usually good for Green Hair Algae, many turf algae, and sometimes even Bubble Algae if you're lucky. So they can certainly be pretty handy. In the case of pretty much any algae-eating fish, they tend to be voracious feeders at feeding time, and I think they eat so much food that they almost negate the algae-eating they may or may not do. :lol:

You can speed up the process if you're able to remove some algae during a water change. I use a pot scrubber with a handle on it. Give it a light brushing (with rocks in place) or use a turkey baster to blast some off if it comes off easy before a water change, and siphon it out. Does that brown algae come off easy or do you have to scrub the heck out of it? Even just blasting the algae and rocks with a turkey baster particularly before a water change, but also daily can make a big difference since the algae collects detritus which it uses for fuel.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Sometimes it's tough to find a fish that will eat a particular type of algae. Foxfaces are usually good for Green Hair Algae, many turf algae, and sometimes even Bubble Algae if you're lucky. So they can certainly be pretty handy. In the case of pretty much any algae-eating fish, they tend to be voracious feeders at feeding time, and I think they eat so much food that they almost negate the algae-eating they may or may not do. :lol:

You can speed up the process if you're able to remove some algae during a water change. I use a pot scrubber with a handle on it. Give it a light brushing (with rocks in place) or use a turkey baster to blast some off if it comes off easy before a water change, and siphon it out. Does that brown algae come off easy or do you have to scrub the heck out of it? Even just blasting the algae and rocks with a turkey baster particularly before a water change, but also daily can make a big difference since the algae collects detritus which it uses for fuel.

Ok, so I took a scrub brush and lightly brushed some of the rocks while in place in the aquarium. And the algae does come off pretty easily. Below is a picture of the same area that I showed at the beginning of this thread. So this does work.

However I believe Peter suggested that "scrubbing the rocks is just keeping my system out of balance." I am not sure why because I read all of the time people suggesting to manually remove algae.

I also stopped by one of our LFS and they have several healthy looking Kole tangs as well as yellows and Scopas. And there was an aquarium maintenance guy in there who I spoke with and he said in his experience the Koles are best at removing algae. He also suggested Black Urchins.

So thats it for now. Thanks!

Before light scrub:

After Light Scrub:
(I also moved the Goniopora because it was getting too much flow in that spot.)

 

[Patrick Cox]

Shorter dwell time in the skimmer, more water and less air adds up to a lower performing skimmer in my opinion. Yes, there are a lot of other factors, but after testing my old life reef, which was rated for a much bigger tank, with a reef octopus with a mesh wheel some years ago, the far cheaper reef octopus seemed to out perform the lifereef by a pretty noticeable margin. Again, this probably isn't a big factor in how the tank is doing, but is something to keep in mind.

Peter, I had a Reef Octopus skimmer in my previous aquarium and I was happy with it. My experience with the two has been that they both seem to skim about equally, but the Lifereef doesn't seem to need as much adjustment as the RO did. But this is after only 6 months with the Lifereef. I had the Reef Octopus for about 3 years.

Thanks.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Ok, so I took a scrub brush and lightly brushed some of the rocks while in place in the aquarium. And the algae does come off pretty easily. Below is a picture of the same area that I showed at the beginning of this thread. So this does work.

However I believe Peter suggested that "scrubbing the rocks is just keeping my system out of balance." I am not sure why because I read all of the time people suggesting to manually remove algae.

I also stopped by one of our LFS and they have several healthy looking Kole tangs as well as yellows and Scopas. And there was an aquarium maintenance guy in there who I spoke with and he said in his experience the Koles are best at removing algae. He also suggested Black Urchins.

So thats it for now. Thanks!

Before light scrub:

After Light Scrub:
(I also moved the Goniopora because it was getting too much flow in that spot.)

The biggest disruption comes from removing the rocks and placing them back in, organisms on rocks adjust to specific conditions and when you changes those conditions even slightly there can be die-off throw things out of balance. Scrubbing or removing some algae from rocks while they're in place is generally not going to do much harm. Sometimes it can help give a cleanup crew a leg up since they often like to eat newer growth of algae.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Peter, I had a Reef Octopus skimmer in my previous aquarium and I was happy with it. My experience with the two has been that they both seem to skim about equally, but the Lifereef doesn't seem to need as much adjustment as the RO did. But this is after only 6 months with the Lifereef. I had the Reef Octopus for about 3 years.

Thanks.

That was just a random example, and there is a wide range of performance even within the octopus line, there are plenty of other options out there, some better and some worse than the reef octopus line. Upgrading your skimmer is only something to consider if you struggle to keep your nitrates down without carbon dosing.

 

[Myka]

Ok, so I took a scrub brush and lightly brushed some of the rocks while in place in the aquarium. And the algae does come off pretty easily. Below is a picture of the same area that I showed at the beginning of this thread. So this does work.

However I believe Peter suggested that "scrubbing the rocks is just keeping my system out of balance." I am not sure why because I read all of the time people suggesting to manually remove algae.

I also stopped by one of our LFS and they have several healthy looking Kole tangs as well as yellows and Scopas. And there was an aquarium maintenance guy in there who I spoke with and he said in his experience the Koles are best at removing algae. He also suggested Black Urchins.

So thats it for now. Thanks!

Your scrubbing looks good. That's exactly what I mean. It will probably grow back, and you can remove it again. So much fun. :thumbsup:

As far as urchins go, they are good at eating algae, but they also scrape coralline off the rocks which tends to allow nuisance algae a foothold, and urchins mouths will also damage plastics like powerheads. Yeah, Kole is probably the best algae eater out of the 4 small tangs, but honestly I don't think you need an algae-eating fish if you bump up your CUC, so just pick whichever small tang you like the best.

The biggest disruption comes from removing the rocks and placing them back in, organisms on rocks adjust to specific conditions and when you changes those conditions even slightly there can be die-off throw things out of balance. Scrubbing or removing some algae from rocks while they're in place is generally not going to do much harm. Sometimes it can help give a cleanup crew a leg up since they often like to eat newer growth of algae.

Agreed. There is a big difference between giving the rocks a light scrub in place, and removing the rocks for a heavy duty scrub.

 

[reefmutt]

I really don't have anything to add to all of the fantastic advice here.
I just want to follow your progress out of the algae quagmire!
Good luck, I bet you'll be algae free and corralline algae full in no time.

 

[truffle22]

Ok, so I took a scrub brush and lightly brushed some of the rocks while in place in the aquarium. And the algae does come off pretty easily. Below is a picture of the same area that I showed at the beginning of this thread. So this does work.



However I believe Peter suggested that "scrubbing the rocks is just keeping my system out of balance." I am not sure why because I read all of the time people suggesting to manually remove algae.



I also stopped by one of our LFS and they have several healthy looking Kole tangs as well as yellows and Scopas. And there was an aquarium maintenance guy in there who I spoke with and he said in his experience the Koles are best at removing algae. He also suggested Black Urchins.



So thats it for now. Thanks!



Before light scrub:

After Light Scrub:

(I also moved the Goniopora because it was getting too much flow in that spot.)

What are the corals that r encrusting over ur rock with holes all over them. Almost sand color. Or is that not coral but a clan or muscle.


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[Patrick Cox]

What are the corals that r encrusting over ur rock with holes all over them. Almost sand color. Or is that not coral but a clan or muscle.


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That is simply part of the rock. This is "Walt Smith 2.1" rock. It is a man made rock. It is very nice.