Need Assistance ASAP

jason78

New member
I added a new tank member to my fowler after 4 weeks of QT and no issues. It was a morish Idol. Eating like a horse and fat as can be. About a week later my powder blue and hippo tang contracted ich.

I quickly moved everyone to my 100 gallon QT system and started copper. In 8 days no losses and everyone was eating healthy and happy.

Fast forward the weeks.

Now 4 weeks into QT and fallow period. I slowly reduced the amount of copper from. 07 to zero.

I awoke one morning to my vlamingi tang having two spots about the size of a dime they look like bruising on the skin. Worst part the morish Idol had a hole in its gut. I thought that maybe a tank mate showed aggression so I segregated the only one it could be (rusty angle) now 4 days after that the vlamingi tang has holes where the bruising was. Like the skin sluffed off and my powder blue is showing the same bruising.

I am sorry for the bad pics but this is the best I could get with out stressing them to much.

Tank is bare bottom. No filtration and I do water changes every other day.



 
I can't make much sense of the pictures, but it sounds from your description like HLLE. It's not unusual for fish to develop this after copper treatment, I think. Google HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) disease and see if that looks right. If so, the good news is that it's reversible to a point. Usually it clears up when the conditions change. I'm not really an expert, so maybe someone else will come along with more details and specific advice.
 
Crush the pill until its powdered.

Dissolve powder in a cup of water and dump the cup in the tank. Keep lights off as its light sensitive.

You really need to address uronema though. Use chloroquine or metronidazole powder. Uronema is faster killing than secondary bacteria infection.



The only thing I have is bactrim.

Any advice on how to dose it? It is in pill form.
 
So is this something that will infect all the fish like ich? So far it seems my 3 tangs and morish Idol have had issue.
 
I added a new tank member to my fowler after 4 weeks of QT and no issues. It was a morish Idol. Eating like a horse and fat as can be. About a week later my powder blue and hippo tang contracted ich.

I quickly moved everyone to my 100 gallon QT system and started copper. In 8 days no losses and everyone was eating healthy and happy.

Fast forward the weeks.

Now 4 weeks into QT and fallow period. I slowly reduced the amount of copper from. 07 to zero.

I awoke one morning to my vlamingi tang having two spots about the size of a dime they look like bruising on the skin. Worst part the morish Idol had a hole in its gut. I thought that maybe a tank mate showed aggression so I segregated the only one it could be (rusty angle) now 4 days after that the vlamingi tang has holes where the bruising was. Like the skin sluffed off and my powder blue is showing the same bruising.

I am sorry for the bad pics but this is the best I could get with out stressing them to much.

Tank is bare bottom. No filtration and I do water changes every other day.



If your fish had ich in the DT there is absolutely no poiny putting in QT as it will stress them more lower immune and then flush goes the toilet. Alot of times with ich its best to try and ride it out. Its very hard to control for and once in your DT you would have to start fresh to ensure no new fish will get it....i only speak the truth brotha take it or leave it
 
I am overseas I don't have access to that medication.

Where are you located?
Chloroquine Phosphate is the main ingridient of New Life Spectrum ICK SHIELD. It is available from Amazon.com. Usually they ship world wide.

But what you need most right now is a broadband antibiotic.
Ciprofloxacin (Trade names: Ciloxan, Cipro, Neofloxin)
or
Trimethoprim/Sulfamethoxazole (Trade names: Bactrim, Bactrimel, Biseptol, Co-trimoxazole, Cotrim, Resprim, Septrin, Septra, Sulfatrim, Trisul, Polytrim)

These should be available in some form everywhere but depending on where you are you may need to find a MD or a Vet to write you a prescription.

I added a new tank member to my fowler after 4 weeks of QT and no issues. It was a morish Idol. Eating like a horse and fat as can be. About a week later my powder blue and hippo tang contracted ich.

I quickly moved everyone to my 100 gallon QT system and started copper. In 8 days no losses and everyone was eating healthy and happy.

Fast forward the weeks.

Now 4 weeks into QT and fallow period. I slowly reduced the amount of copper from. 07 to zero.

I awoke one morning to my vlamingi tang having two spots about the size of a dime they look like bruising on the skin. Worst part the morish Idol had a hole in its gut. I thought that maybe a tank mate showed aggression so I segregated the only one it could be (rusty angle) now 4 days after that the vlamingi tang has holes where the bruising was. Like the skin sluffed off and my powder blue is showing the same bruising.

I am sorry for the bad pics but this is the best I could get with out stressing them to much.

Tank is bare bottom. No filtration and I do water changes every other day.

4 weeks of quarantine is obviously not enough.
Though if I read this right the new fish didn't get sick but some of the old ones. This can mean that you already had ich in your system and the stress the new fish caused brought it to the surface. The other possibility is that the new fish had developed resistance and therefore didn't show symptoms but brought it into your tank where those fish without resistance got infected.
But at this point it really doesn't matter much.

As for copper - I wouldn't use it against ich to begin with - 0.07 mg/l is way too low to be effective. You need to maintain levels of free copper ions between 0.15 to 0.20 mg/l for at least 4 weeks to be sure all ich is gone.

Also, given the kind of fish and the amount of feeding, having no filter in the QT is beyond reckless. Ammonia will build up quickly without enough of the proper bacteria and water changes every other day won't do much about it as even small, non lethal amounts are harmful to fish and may cause them to be susceptible to all kind of opportunistic infections.

If your fish had ich in the DT there is absolutely no poiny putting in QT as it will stress them more lower immune and then flush goes the toilet. Alot of times with ich its best to try and ride it out. Its very hard to control for and once in your DT you would have to start fresh to ensure no new fish will get it....i only speak the truth brotha take it or leave it

This is not entirely correct. Ich cam be easily eradicated in a FOWLR tank by going fallow for 3 months adhering to strict quarantine procedures.

In mixed reefs with corals it is really only feasible if you start your tank without any fish until you have all the corals you want, then wait another 3 months and add well quarantined fish. This is under the assumption that you only have one tank suitable for corals.
If you would want to add corals after fish are in the tank you would need to quarantine them for 72 days (~3months) which in essence means that you need another, fully separate tank with all the light and installations required to keep and grow corals - something most don't have.

Though I agree that in some cases where the fish only show very few nodules it might be better to wait with treatment and see if the fish can handle it by themselves. Tough if you see a lot white spots or it is escalating and the fish get more spots from wave to wave I would start treating right away.
The one thing I would never use to treat fish against ich is copper. Not only is it toxic but also an immunosuppressant which can open the door for all kinds of complications like in this case.
TTM or hyposalinity are in general more gentle on the fish and more effective than copper against ich.
 
Those wounds look worse than ich. I think he needs to address those first. They look like something ate a round hole out of the sides of the fish. Sucks.

Go down the thread, looks similar to your issue

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2481482

I agree - this looks like a textbook example of uronema marinum, likely paired with a secondary bacterial infection (if not yet, soon to follow).

According to Bassleer the most effective treatment is formalin and malachite green as HT medication. Aditionally for 5 days a 3 to 10 minute freshwater bath followed by a 20 minute bath in sea water with methylene blue (20-40 mg per liter).
Additionally secondary bacterial infections may need to be treated with antibiotics (Bassleer recommends Chloreampenicol & Nifurpirinol).

Though often, when you see deep ulcers, it is already too late as the parasite has invaded deep into the tissue or reached the bloodstream.
 
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