Need Feedback - Lighting Setup

[DarG]

Gondore, you can simply use one of the lower par halides if you dont need all the par. Something like the Reeflux 12000K or the XM 15000K or XM 20000K are lower par halides with par more like that of a higher par 150 watt DE, especially on electronic ballasts. There are several others as well. They may very well be enough to keep high light corals when you decide to go with SPS and at that point you can place the higher light corals up higher in the tank and still keep the lower light corals if you want a mixed reef. If down the road you decide to keep only sps you can just switch to a higher par halide and be able to place high light lovers wherever you wish to.

As far as the Icecap 660, I was just letting you know that it does overdrive the T5's more than the 430 (which was a surprise to me). You will probably be fine with the 430. Just wasnt sure whether you wanted to fully overdrive the T5's.

There are many reefers with halides inside canopy that do not use or need a chiller. Get some advice from canopy users on how best to vent and place fans in the canopy for most effective cooling. I know that having an open back or a back that can open or close can help a great deal. Obviously the more open area available for heat to escape or be exhausted out of, the easier to get the heat out. I think with smart design of the canopy and fan cooling you will be fine. Again, post to the canopy users with halides for best advice and ideas. I dont use a canopy, my tank is an in wall (fish room).

 

[Gondore]

Thanks again DarG for the great information. I am going to go with that setup.

This isn't on the topic of the thread but can you give me some recommendations on protein skimmers, sumps/ref, and pumps?

 

[46FiatYamaha]

If you are concerned with the price, you could get two of these http://www.aquacave.com/coralvue-250w-double-endedbrhqi-metal-halide-retro-kit-1192.html Two of them for a little over $400. I just put them in the canopy of my 120 with 14K coralvue bulbs, and are quite blue, enough that i'm not going to supplement with t-5's (for now anyway)

 

[DarG]

Unfortunatley, those reflectors dont come close to the Lumenmax that Gondore is planning to use. No offense intended. I have used them myself in the past . They are the same reflectors as those 39 dollar retros sold at Hello Lights and DIY reef. Ok for tight budgets on small tanks but not among the top performers.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12312034#post12312034 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gondore
Thanks again DarG for the great information. I am going to go with that setup.

This isn't on the topic of the thread but can you give me some recommendations on protein skimmers, sumps/ref, and pumps?

Ive never used a refugium. I dont really have the space although I could probably set one up if I moved some things around. I may or may not set one up down the road ... probably not anytime in the near future. Obviously Im not the best source of advice on refugiums. Or sumps for that matter. I just use a basic sump. I am using filter socks that I change twice per week atleast for some particulate filtering and microbubble control. But my sump is very basic. No fancy bubble trap or refugium section. No live rock, or bio balls. It only catches water from my overflow and houses my carbon "reactor" which I use every couple of weeks for a day or two. My Phosphate reactor hangs on the sump. My calcium and alk supplements drip into my sump. One pump is my return from sump to tank (t'd off to a UV sterilizer). Another pump feeds my skimmer which is external. My sump is about a 20 gallon tank size. It;s acrylic and didnt cost very much. Got it from ebay for about 120 bucks shipped. It just happened to fit my narrow space.
You can go as fancy or simple as you want to with a sump. You can do a sump with refugium area. Or seperate sump and refugium.

For skimmers you need to decide if you want an external or internal. DAS makes a nice skimmer that can go in sump or out. The EX-1 will handle a 90 just fine. I use an EX-2 on my 90 but it is overkill. They are needlewheel recirculating skimmers. You can go with a non recirc. needlewheel that goes in sump only. There are some MSX skimmers (I think tahts the name) that are copies of a more expensive, effective design. These are in sump non recirc needlwheel skimmers that seem to be getting lots of bang for the buck praise. The DAS are a Deltec type design and also bang for buck skimmers. Then there are some nice venturi skimmers that are an old design that has been updated ... the Bermuda skimmers. Can run in or out fo sump. Require largish pumps, pressure rated preferably. The bermuda 3C is a small skimmer but will handle a 90 gallon without problem. Just under 300 bucks plus the pump. Then there are Beckett type skimmers that require even larger pressure rated pumps. Still an excellent design that is effective. So you kinda gotta decide whether you want external or internal and what type. All the recirc needlewheels and regular needlewheel types use less energy because of smaller pumps but they require proprietary pumps. The Becketts and venturis (and spray nozzle and downdraft) types require larger pumps that use more energy but can readily be replaced should the pump quit.

Id start a seperate thread for skimmers. You will get a lot of input.

Pumps ... turnover these days is 3 - 5 X system volume through the sump. So an external or internal pump in the 400 GPH range (after head losses) would be fine. A pressure rated pump in the 500 GPH range or an non pressure rated pump in the 600 GPH range would get it done after head loss and other plumbing losses in most cases. External pumps generally heat the water less than internal. You have to decide how quiet you need the pump to be, or rather, quite or silent. I use Panworld external pumps for my return and my DAS skimmer. They are relatively quiet to me (which could be loud to others) and not too expensive for the smaller ones. Eheim makes a popular and very good internal. MAG Drive pumps are very popular. Mainly becaues they dont cost much I think. I dont like them. Not all that reliable, relatively speaking, and they run on the hot side and are not without their share of complaints of noise.
The quietest are the external water cooled pumps. These are near silent. Velocity is one name brand and I think Posiedon is another (may be the same pumps). These do heat the water more than fan cooled externals. Internals also add some heat to the water. Fan cooled externals do as well, some worse than others. But relatively speaking they probably contribute less to heat transfer to the tank than other types.

That was a book with nothing but general information. Something to start with though, I hope.

 

[Gondore]

DarG - Lots of good information to get me thinking. I started investigating protein skimmers a bit more today. What do you think of the ASM G1-X?

 

[DarG]

I dont know how well those skimmers are regarded these days. Still plenty of ASM users on the forum though. They should be able to help. Im not very well versed in all the skimmers that are avilable. Im just familiar with a few of the good ones by reputation and some of the bang for the buck types.

 

[Gondore]

Alright, after creating another thread and reading about skimmers all day I think I'm going to go with the MSX160.

 

[DarG]

Good skimmers from what everyone is saying.

 

[Gondore]

DarG - Another question for you! I'm back to the bulbs again. What do you think of 250W XM 15,000k Bulb for the two MHs? Also, if I went with these what T5 would you use. I prefer a slightly blue look overall.

 

[DarG]

I have never used the XM but it is a strange bulb. It measures between 12-16K depending on ballast but it has low par for a bulb that doesnt have a ton of blue. Its not very popular because of the low par. It may be a good option for you starting with lower light corals but Im not sure if it will be blue enough for you. I doubt it will be if you went with a magnetic HQI ballast, with electronic it may be. The Ushio 20000K looks much much blue that that XM on the plot but the Ushio is not super blue. It's got a fair amount of blue but it's not a real blue bulb. So, I think that the XM on electronic ballast is still kinda iffy. In reality, it should have a little bit of a blue tint if your water is clear but ones idea of slightly blue is anothers just plain blue.
I think that you could attain what I would consider a slight blue tint with the XM on electronic ballast and either a couple of super actinics or a blue plus and a super actinic. Possibly two blue plus if it isnt blue enough. I like to find halides that have enough blue on their own that I can use super actinic T5's to adjust the color. That way you have both blue and actinic lighting. However the blue plus bulbs have higher output and they do have a larger inpact on coloring up halides than super actinics. So again, it really depends on what look you want and how much blue. I think that an XM on e ballast with a couple of super actinics would probably be close to the kind of look that I like which is slight but noticeable blue with the super actinics adding that actinic/purplish hue into the mix. But again, Im not positive because I havent used the bulb.

Now, the Reeflux 12K may be what you are looking for. I really dont like it on its own but with a blue plus and actinic it has just enough blue and actinic to look really good color wise. Alot of reefers like these bulbs. They also fall into the lower par category which should be fine with your concerns of too much light for the corals you want to start with. There is no info for the Reeflux 250 watt DE only the SE and they arent necessarily the same. But I have a feeling that the Reeflux 12K is bluer than the XM 15K and if that is the case then I dont think the XM will be blue enough.

Bascially, I think the XM may be a crap shoot. I think you may like the Reeflux 12K with actinics and blue plus T5.

KZ Fiji Purple T5 is also a bulb you may want to have on hand. It is like a super actinic but a bit whiter and with more of a red/purple look than the blue/purple of the super actinics. I really like them for coloring up some halides along with a super actinic.

 

[Gondore]

How does the Phoenix 14k compare to the Reeflux 12k? The reason I ask is because I have seen several post saying this bulbs are very similar. If this is the case then I will go with the Phoenix because I can have it shipped from DIYReef with my other lighting equipment.

 

[Gondore]

How does the Phoenix 14k compare to the Reeflux 12k? The reason I ask is because I have seen several post saying this bulbs are very similar. If this is the case then I will go with the Phoenix because I can have it shipped from DIYReef with my other lighting equipment.

 

[crash jr]

thanks for the great stuff. I was wondering about led moon light? and your time cycle... sunrise/set blue 1 hr +/-

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12322693#post12322693 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gondore
How does the Phoenix 14k compare to the Reeflux 12k? The reason I ask is because I have seen several post saying this bulbs are very similar. If this is the case then I will go with the Phoenix because I can have it shipped from DIYReef with my other lighting equipment.

They arent similiar at all really. I have used both bulbs. The Phoenix is far bluer that the Reeflux and also has signifigantly higher par. The Reeflux 12K is a much warmer looking lamp. I really dont like it without supplements but since it doesnt have a whole lot of par the flourescent supplements easily color it up and then it looks really nice. If you want slight blue the Phoenix is not the way to go.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12322950#post12322950 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crash jr
thanks for the great stuff. I was wondering about led moon light? and your time cycle... sunrise/set blue 1 hr +/-

Right now my tentative light cycle is flourescents on at 12 noon, halides on at 3 pm, halides off at 1o pm and florescents off at 11 pm with led moonlights on from 11 pm until 1:30 am

I use two 1 watt blue corlaife moonlights on gooseneck mount. I generally dont like coralife aquarium products but these have worked great for me and are really bright. the two add a nice blue shimmer light affect to the entire tops and front of the rockwork and front of the tank.

My lighting schedule is very tentative right now. I didnt keep any of the corals from the old tank for numerous reasons. I havent stocked the new tank with corals yet so lighting schedule will possibly change.

 

[Gondore]

DarG - What do you think about going with the XM 10k with a mix of ATI blue plus and actinic T5HO? I spoke with Debbie from DIYReef and that is what she is using right now.

 

[DarG]

Par would be good. You may need two blue plus to balance the color to get the blue you want and it still may not be enough. Or it may be enough. The XM 10K has plenty of actinic so you dont need to get it from the T5's you could use two blue plus to get enough blue. I dont think it would be blue enough for me personally but you could really like the look. I havent used that bulb so I dont know how yellow it looks. Some reefers report very yellow and a few say it is basically white.

 

[Gondore]

Alright, I think it's final. I am going with the Reeflux 10k with two T5 actinics. Thoughts on this DarG?

This is the image that sold me on it.

 

[DarG]

Is that image with the 10K SE or DE Reeflux?
Judging from the plot of the Reeflux 10K SE and my experience with the DE versions, I have a feeling that the SE's are bluer. I found the 10K DE's to be a bit on the yellow side with M80 ballast. I needed to use blue plus rather than actinics to color them up and still really didnt like the bulbs all that much. Just being honest as Im sure its starting to get frustrating. But they do have pretty good par and they are fairly popular and you are going with electronic ballasts which should burn them a little bluer. Look ... what you like and what I like will probably be very different. I prefer the Iwasaki 14000K to the Phoenix by a large margin. I am in the minority by a wide margin. Bottom line is that you almost have to pick something, keep the faith and then see what it looks like. Having T5's really makes it easier so chances are you will be happy with the bulbs and some combination of T5's. If you are picky (like me) you may as well resign yourself to the fact that even if you like what you start out with you will eventually try something to see if you like it better. The Reeflux 10K's will allow you to keep whatever you want to though so that is one thing you wont have to worry about.

Go with it.