Need help/advice on odd bleaching events.

Travis

10 and over club
I made a lot of changes to my tank recently and my corals are starting to show the effects. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions on helping the zooxanthellae populations recover in the affected corals.

Here are some of the STUPID things I've done over the past few months:
1)About 5 months ago I changed from the RC salt I was running for the past year to Seachem. Went through 450 gallons of the Seachem. Then had to use a 200 gallon bucket of Oceanic during a time when I needed salt but didn't have money and had credit at the LFS but Oceanic is all they had. Then I had to use 2 160 gallon buckets of IO to correct the high magnesium levels I had after using the bucket of Oceanic (Oceanic tested at 1606 Mg). Then, Seachem sent me 450 gallons of salt to rectify the issues I had with their inconsistent batches (I posted about that in this thread). So now I'm back to the Seachem and have gone through about 400 gallons of it since I had to use the IO. So that is about 4 different salts that have gone through my tank in the past 6 months.
2)Increased my MH photoperiod 1 hour per week to 11 hours from 8. After a lot of brainstorming, I think this may be the main culprit.
3)Accidetally added too much of a DIY Mg additive a few months ago. I was running at around 1120 and ended up around 1560 which took several weeks of 30% weekly WC's to get down.
4)I was going to start ZEOvit and then backed out. In preparation for ZEOvit, I had lowered my alk from 9.5 to 7.5 over a couple weeks.

I think that sums up the major changes I've made over the past few months. I know, I know, it was stupid and I'm paying the price now. I've kept sps for several years now and know they need stability but just got the urge to push things to the next level and changed a few too much in a short period of time. Now I'm paying for it with several pieces headed downhill.

Here is what I did/have done/am doing:
1)Cut each MH bulb down to 4 hours from 8 (has been brought down to 8 from 11 over the past few weeks). Cut actinics down from 12 hours to 10.
2)Slowly raised dKH to 10.0 from 7.5 over the past few weeks.
3)I always skim wet. Not wet skimmate, but truly "wet skimming". This is where no foam is able to form. The bubbles pop at the top of the riser tube throwing water droplets and solid matter into the collection cup. I dialed the skimmer back to dry for a couple weeks thinking I may have been overskimming but it didn't help.
4)I have been feeding more than usual lately. Actually, for probably the past 4-6 weeks. I have been mixing in a lot of GP's with the fish food to help directly feed the corals and add some nutrients to the water. I haven't really noticed any positive changes in the corals. What I did notice was that the PO4 went up to .20 (Hanna colorimeter) from around .06 and I was only able to keep it at .20 with 100 gallon (30%) weekly water changes. I currently have 20 blue/green chromis in quarantine, which will soon be added to the tank to increase the fish load and allow me to feed more fish food without having to feed other junk like GP's to get more food to the corals. Since I could not get the PO4 down I thought the recently elevated levels may have caused some negative changes in the corals so I started running some ROWAphos a few days ago to bring the levels back down. The ROWAphos truly is remarkable at doing what it is supposed to. In the first 24 hours alone, my PO4 went from .20 to .08. I am now on day 3 of the ROWAphos and PO4 is hovering around .03.

The bleaching events have been strange. They started about 4 weeks ago and always happen at different times on different corals. Some would happen overnight and some would slowly happen over a weeks time. Some of the corals then start getting really dangerously thin tissue. After a few weeks the tissue gets so thin that the coral eventually dies. Some of the bleached corals continue to exhibit normal polyp extension while others, the PE slowly gets less and less. With most of the corals, the bleaching could easily be taken the wrong way. In most of them, it is the zooxanthellae that was expelled but the photoprotective pigments remain. The end result is a coral that is really "popping" with color. But this is one of those cases where the excellent coloration is not indicitave of good health. A couple of the bleached corals do look really awesome, like they would glow in the dark... if only they would look like this and also be healthy. Also, the location in the tank has nothing to do with anything. Some of the bleached corals have been at the top in direct light, at the bottom in inderect light, and one was even positioned in a spot where it was shaded by rock and coral above it and still bleached. The bleaching has occurred in spots across the whole length of the tank, which eliminates a bad bulb being a possible factor.

So that is where things are now. Now that I have my Ca, alk, and Mg back where I want them, I am just going to leave things stable until the tank stabilizes and hopefully starts to turn around. I will leave the bulbs at 4 hours until some of the bleached corals start getting some decent zooxanthellae populations going again. If they don't start getting darker after another week or so I may even cut the bulbs down to 2 or even less hours.

How does cutting my photoperiod sound? Is 4 hours too little? What else can I do?
 
I think 4 hours is too little. I leave my metal halides on for about 12 hours a day. But in your case, if you left your metal halides on for 8 hours a day without any problems, I would revert back to the original photoperiod.
 
Someone else mentioned the same thing in another thread. It does make sense and is making me rethink things. I guess my mind has been thinking that it was the increase in photoperiod that had the largest effect on the bleaching and that a large decrease would help the corals recover. But the bleaching could have been caused by any of the changes. Since my tank did fine without any bleaching with an 8 hour per day photoperiod before, maybe that is what I should just keep it at.
 
I had some of my older SPS colonies do exactly the same thing when I started Zeovit. Sounds like you already have a low nutrient system. When I started adding Coral vitalizer, the thinning tissue returned. I have also noticed more PE and better coloration as well.
Eric at frag farmer turned me on to a Seachem AA product that is also excellent for coloration and coral heath in low nutrient tanks..Reef plus. I think alot of it gets skimmed out quickly, but 1/2 way into the first bottle my blastos and micros really changed in color and plumpness (is that even a word?).
I think cutting back on the lights will also really help. You must get great light transmission through such clean SW...probably only need 6-8 hrs of halides..
 
Thanks for the suggestions marcrothschild. I did just start adding CV and AAHC about 24 hours ago. I figured these would be 2 good supps to add to restore health to the corals. I'm suprised you had tissue thinning with CV as I thought that was just supposed to be a food source.
 
Wow, Travis - that sucks.

I think sticking on the same salt is a very wise choice ... it's just such a mystery what changes were going on there.
I tend to think while the rest of the changes are significant, [Alk, photoperiod, etc] ... that the salt changes raise my suspicion too.

Any correlation between pieces having problems and flow in the tank?

Adding the chromis probably won't hurt IMO ... one odd idea I'll throw out for the meantime is to consider shutting off the skimmer the night before a w/c? Figure a night [or a day] of elevated nutrients could only brown things, not desirable normally, but here perhaps a good effect [at least for some]?

Perhaps as well, feeding more often [same amount, spread out more] - before lights go on, after lights out, mid-day ... is worth trying? No idea on your feeding practices like that ... likely have it covered, but figure it's something probably not harmful to try.

After coffee I'll probably have some useful ideas ;)
 
Hi Travis,

I think it is a combo of two things.

Increasing the lighting schedule.

Changing salts.

On the salt I don't completely think it is just that you used different brands, it's that you probably did more water changes than you normally do when trying to get things back in balance. I think we underestimate, how sometimes too many water changes can change the dynamics of the tank, especially water clarity and often times this can lead to a slight bleaching. Add that with the fact that you increased the lighting schedule and that only compounds your problem.

I think it will all balance itself out in time. I've done the same thing now and again, after a few months most of the corals generally recover.

HTH
 
Travis, the tissue thinning was not a result of using CV....I think it came from the rapid nutrient reduction that the basic 4 provided, CV and AA helped to reverse it.
 
Travis,
I went and look at your web site nice tank.
I think that the problem was caused by the lowering the Alk and the accidental raising of the Mg. Then throw in the elevated PO4 levels.
Building back up thinned out tissue on corals is the hardest thing to do in my opinion and will require stability and ideal water parameters.
I also think that you are on the right track with lowering the PO4. You may want to try lowering it using a bacteria driven method as well in conjunction with ROWAphos, like Vodka, Zeovit, or Prodibio.
I would try to get the Alk around 8-9dkh.
I think that 10dkh is too high and may slow recovery. Run GAC if your not already.
If you have red bugs this would be the time to treat. Your corals will have no chance of recovery in my opinion if you got them.
I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t think you will see any benefit of lowering the MH period below three hours. I think that four to five hours of MH lighting is good.
Try adding an amino acid/vitamin supplement to your tank, and feed your fish well but donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t over feed.
Make sure that everything is receiving a good amount of indirect flow.
Keep up the water changes for the trace element but I would keep the volume down to 10% a week rather than say 20% ever two weeks.
Are you still running ozone? If so the bacteria methods I suggested will not work, or if you are running UV.
Mike(Mojoreef @ RF) brought up temp as a possible cause I also thought of this, daily small swings as you know wonââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t cause bleaching in most cases. But sort term temp increases may, like raising you temp from 80 to 85 in a week and then the daily temp swing of a few degrees. After looking at your site I noticed that you are using an Aqua Controler, is your temp correct?
I know that you are an advanced aquarist and far above my level and this is just all my opinion. Sorry for bouncing all over the place.
Good Luck,
David
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I really appreciate the help.

MiddletonMark, there isn't any correlation between affected pieces and flow. Some pieces are in lower flow and some are in very strong flow.

JB NY, that is a good point. Before, I was doing 100 gallon water changes every 2 weeks or sometimes even once a month if I was lazy. In the past few months I've been doing them on average of 100 gallons weekly. I guess this highlights the point that sometimes you can have too much of a good thing. I think doing too many water changes can take a system out of balance. But then there is Anthony Calfo, who recommends 100% water changes. I suppose it kind of depends on what your tank is used to.

-=DieselDave=-, I'm not running ozone anymore and don't run UV either. I will have to go over to RF to see what Mike had to say.

I did find something that I did not want to find last night:
<img src=http://www.notlehs.com/travis/AEFW/AEFW%20on%20valida%204-7-06.jpg>
In this picture you can see an adult acro eating FW... there were about 20-30 adults on this frag. You can also see the egg clutch of probably over 1000 eggs. Obviously the FW's have been in the tank for a while. I broke down and removed every single acro from the tank today and chipped away any bases left on the rock. I put them all in my QT tank and will be treating them with Levamisole once per week for 4 weeks and then I will put them back in. I don't necessarily think the AEFW are the cause of the problems but they obviously play a part. I think it is most likely that the stress I caused my corals over the past few months lowered their health making them more susceptible to the FW's, and allowed the FW's to reach plague proportions.
 
sorry to hear buddy ...hope i'm not in the same situation!!!! i haven't had any problems lately.

i need to start reading AEFW threads to see what i need to look for!!

Lunchbucket
 
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