Need Help: Corals Dying, no clues...

[bguile]

Has anyone had this problem before? I have a 40 breeder tank where my corals have been dying off slowly for the past month and a half. It has been fallow for a total of two months due to ich. Here are my latest test results:

SG: 1.026
Temp: 80-83 F
ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 5ppm
Calcium: 320ppm
Alkalinity: 11dKh
Phos: 0
Copper: 0

I am getting a lot of algae growth and have cleaned PHs several times. Within a week or two I'm cleaning them again b/c they're covered in cyano. I've placed ROWAphos in the sump and am running carbon. All help is appreciated as I'm losing all of my investments and hard work.

 

[Peter Eichler]

What kind of corals, do you run a skimmer, what lighting, etc., etc.

 

[affan]

Whatever the cause of their deaths maybe, you need to raise your Ca and bring it somewhere between 400 and 450 ppm. FWIW.

 

[bguile]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8118728#post8118728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
What kind of corals, do you run a skimmer, what lighting, etc., etc.

The corals I have or had include, branching torch, various zooanthids, ricordea, pulsing xenia, sun polyps, green star polyps. As mentioned earlier, all the heads on my torch died and I threw them out, the same with the sun polyps. I had a large rock with green star polyps but they are all closed up now and don't protract. The same is happening with my zooanthids. I have a single DE 14K Halide that's on for 6 hours. One other thing I forgot: pH. the range is 7.98 at night to 8.13 at mid-light period. I have a skimmer (MRC1) that's plumbed to a RDSB bucket that I have disconnected for a couple days trying to narrow down what's causing the die off.

 

[bguile]

Wow...58 views (at time of this post) and no other thoughts? I guess this is one stumping everyone! you know it's gotta be good when the LFS guys can't come up with something to sell to "remedy" the situation! :lol: jk My LFS guys and gals are pretty awesome.

Anyways, there hasn't been any improvement. However, I did happen to notice that one of my hermit crabs hadn't moved in a few hours. I poked at him and he retracted slowly into his shell and appeared really weak when I turned him loose b/c again he didn't move. I then thought "oxygen" and immediately placed an airstone in the tank. The pH has since rised and seems to be steady at 8.2, even with the lights out. We'll see what happens.

 

[Sk8r]

I prefer these readings:
alk 8.3
ph 8.3
cal 400-420
mg 1200-1300
temp 80
nitrate,trate,ammonia 0,0,0.
salinity 1.025
I think you should let the alk sink naturally a bit and work to raise the calcium: if it won't raise, check your magnesium [the 3rd member of the triad].

And when all else fails start suspecting those things the accuracy of which you have taken for granted, your thermometer, salt reading, test results, etc.
You haven't used any medication in the tank, right?

 

[ACBlinky]

Cyano can smother corals, is it only growing on the walls or is it all over the tank?

Ca is way low, I agree it's important to raise it to 400+. Go slowly, you want to improve conditions but avoid shocking already sick livestock.
If parameters get out of whack and/or livestock start showing signs of illness/irritation the first corrective measure I'd take is a few back to back water changes. Siphon out all the cyano you can, make sure there are no dead spots, recheck all the parameters and run fresh carbon. Keep us posted.

 

[bguile]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8126218#post8126218 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r

You haven't used any medication in the tank, right?

No. No medication in the tank. I do have redundant thermometers that are reading the same. The accuracy of my equipment was the first thing I suspected as being correct. I'll have to check the salinity. I use a refractometer but have a floating hydrometer for backup. I have taken my water to the LFS and had them test and they are getting the same readings I get at home. I was doing some searching last night and found a thread that said cyano loves a low oxygen environment. That seems to be the only thing growing! I'm at work now, so I wont know if adding the airstone is helping or not until later.

AC: It's growing all over now. This evening I'll try removing what's grown over some of the corals with a toothbrush or something.

 

[BLOODMAN]

I had the same issue and only after I lost all my corals did I discover that my temp was off by 10 degrees. Check your thermometers. Don't trust the digitals, get a liquid one and check it.

 

[cristhiam]

How about water changes? did this happened after placing the ROWAphos? or before?

 

[bguile]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8129054#post8129054 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLOODMAN
I had the same issue and only after I lost all my corals did I discover that my temp was off by 10 degrees. Check your thermometers. Don't trust the digitals, get a liquid one and check it.

Thanks for the heads up. I do have a liquid thermometer in the tank and the two are in synch.

 

[bguile]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8129090#post8129090 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cristhiam
How about water changes? did this happened after placing the ROWAphos? or before?

Once I noticed that something was affecting the entire tank, I undid the last thing I had added which was an RDSB bucket and did an 80% water change. The die off had begun happening long before I even plumbed it but I didn't notice at the time that this wasn't an isolated situation. It really wasn't until I began seeing my Xenia withering that I realized something was terribly wrong. This was also before ROWAphos.

 

[leeweber85]

my recommendations:

Clean off all the cyano, Do 2 or 3 large waterchanges... 50% each. Run Carbon. Reduce temp to 78-80F

If that doesn't help, inspect your light bulb(bulbs) and UV filter lense to make sure there isn't a problem with that.

 

[leeweber85]

is there any flatworms or anything that might be eating them?

 

[bguile]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8130428#post8130428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leeweber85
is there any flatworms or anything that might be eating them?

No. At least the evidence doesn't show. There's really no missing tissue, just that the polyps are all closed up. They don't really wither away until they've been closed for a while, but this is a whole tank attack. Not just localized. I'm going to do a major cleaning and water change hopefully tomorrow.

 

[nmprisons]

you should run your lights 10-11 hours/day
get your calcium up

just my thoughts

 

[bguile]

New numbers

New numbers

Here's my test results from today:

pH 8.3
Salinity 1.023
NO3 (ppm) 2.5
NH3 0
Ca (ppm) 290
KH (dKH) 13.1

This is approx 4 hours after the lights have come on. Calcium has dropped back down and alkalinity has actually risen. I haven't added anything to the display since the last test.

 

[seattlerob]

bguile: what are you dosing into your tank for Ca and Alk? I am assuming you are dosing something, because your Alk is higher in the 2nd post from your 1st (11 on 9/10 & 13.1 on 9/12). IMO, you need to stop dosing for Alk and dose something to raise your Ca to 400-420 or so. Let your Alk fall down to around 9 or so & try to maintain there. Also, your SG swung quite a bit for 2 days, from 1.026 to 1.023. This is not good...of all things temp & SG should be kept at the most constant.

If you have not been dosing anything (just reread your above post and now see you said you haven't added anything) and only doing water changes, I suggest you test a batch of the new water for Ca and Alk. Something is not right with your Ca going down and Alk going up. In general, Alk should go down faster than Ca. If you're not dosing anything, your new saltwater mix must be out of whack as far as Ca and Alk. Also, are you using RO/DI water? Also, I'm sure you're already doing it, but the SG of your new water has got to match the tank. 1.026 should stay 1.026.

I would also try & get your skimmer back in operation. Skimmer should help with oxygenation of the water.

One other thing I didn't see posted already...what kind of flow do you have in your tank? How much & how many PHs?

Good luck & hope you solve this quickly!

Rob

 

[twon8]

what test kits are you using?

alk shouldn't get that high on its own,


what sort of flow in the tank?

are you running a skimmer?

 

[twon8]

with alkalinity that high i don't see how your ph could be that low