need help what have i missed? fish dying

[HollieR14]

Hello Everyone:

We thought we had successfully battles ich in our tank even though we lost 2 clown fish- we tested everything again last week and then decided to add some more fish. This weekend we added one fridmani pseudochromis and one fire fish.

We carefully acclimated both fish on Saturday night they looked fine when we went to bed. On sunday morning the firefish was upside down and gasping- has since disappeared and we cannot find him.

The fridmani seemed fine until last night, he was listless and also had some pale coloration on the back half of the body. Today he is now where to be seen- We have been faithfully testing and there is no spike in ammonia/nitrate/nitrite - is it possible that they are hiding? or they both died and the crabs/snalis ate the remians really fast?

We have two blue/green chromis who have been doing great since we added them at the start (end of the cycle) about 2 months- they have shown no signs of illness or stress. we have a few frags of coral zoos, torch coral, mushrooms, and star polyps - all are fine.

water changes are consistent and timley- crabs and snails are fine as well. i really hate loosing fish- it is expensive and i hate to think the poor things are suffering-

As always I look foward to your help and advice. Thanks

PS- all of the fish in our tank have come from LFS..not te same one.

Hollie

 

[commonstranger]

What size tank Hollie ? I think everyone goes through the ich battle. From my understanding ich is like the common cold its everywhere all the time. Its just is your body (or the fish) tough enough to fight it off. You could just have had bad luck on the fish you bought and its possible just the transport ,bagging etc stressed them out. You did see the signs of ich on them before they died ? Ich to me is small white dots on the fish and you can usually tell they have because they will try and bump into things and dart suddenly. My advice go buy another fish something hardy but not so hardy it can live through anything and see how it goes. Also when buying fish if you see what Ive described to you dont buy it. I dont like losing fish or coral so if I see something in the LFS that shows signs of stress or disease Im not buying it. Wish you the best.

 

[HollieR14]

Hi Rhett:

The clowns definetly had something with small white spots- so we were sure it was ich, we treated the tank for it and then waited and the chromis have been fine.

The firefish and the fridmani were in the same tank at the lfs- it took them a while to get the fridmani so it may have been stressed- the firefish was upsidedown, would have a "convulsion" every once in a while and then got caught up in the current went behind the rocks and has never been seen again. we just got a powerhead and went behind the rocks to see if we could "blow" anything out from behind so at least if we did have dead fish back there we could remove the remains- no luck - not anything- which leads me to beleive they are both excellent at hiding and still OK or they have been completley consumed by the cleanup crew......we tried feeding and as usual the chromis eat like pigs and no sign of the others. . . .i tried really hard to look for signs of illness/stress in the latest fish- what breed would you suggest for the next one?

 

[commonstranger]

The Chromis are tough ones. Hmmmm A PJ Cardinal might be a good one. They are a very peaceful fish for the most part and would go with anything else you decided to add later. They go for about 12 to $15. I'd buy one and see how it goes. Also if your at a store and it takes them too long to catch it dont take it. Just tell them youve changed your mind. (You would have to be the one to make this call though) Another good idea is ask them to feed the fish to see if it eats. These are only my opinions hopefully someone with more experience than me will chime in to help you aswell.

 

[grapenutz]

Hollie do you by chance have a UV sterilizer on that tank. Sometimes fish bought from LFS can be so used to the tanks that they are currently in, that when they are taken home they stress out something major. Since Ich is always present in your tank, and fish only get Ick when stressed or immune systems are low, The addition of a UV sterilizer would help almost eradicate 95% of the possibility of Ick. The Chromis that you currently have are used to the conditions in your tank. But when your bringing something new home, they stress trying to acclimate to your water conditions and immediately are open game for Ick. Also a quarantine tank and garlic guard are two good ways to make sure they are healthy and viable to be introduced into a new tank.
Of course all this is just one persons opinion.

 

[TitansFan]

what are you using to test your water?
and how old is this tank?
how are you acclimating the fish?
what are your test readings?
how big is this tank?
and you say you "treated" the tank for ich? what did you use?

 

[yogotti]

when i have ich i was told not to add anything to the water for four months. after the four months were up i add a fish and everything was fine!!!

 

[HollieR14]

wow yogotti - i had not heard that---
Our tank is 90 gallons with a 29 gallon sump, we have live rock, a swamp of good algae growing in the sump.

titansfan- we are using a test kit made by "saltwater master"
Ammonia 0, nitrate 0-20, nirtite 0. PH is 8.2
we used kick ich to treat the tank- 3 weeks ago
we are acclimating the fish by floating them for at least 15 minutes, then every 10-15 minutes adding a bit of our tank water to thier float bag - repeating 3 times- so it takes 45-60 minutes ti get them in. Also we try to keep other water (from lfs) out of the tank.

Our tank has been running since late august, the chromis were the 1st ones in and they have been in for about 2 months or so.

On the UV sterilier....will it kill the good stuff to?
Thanks

 

[meintn]

a UV will only kill what passes through it so yes, good and bad will die. I think is you have sufficient filtration/live rock that you're system will recover the loss of the good stuff faster then the bad. I run a UV in conjunction with my sump every few days for 24 hrs or so. As far as ich goes, you can either treat it in the tank with garlic/UV/water changes and making sure your fish eat well or leave the tank fallow for 6 weeks to rid the tank of it. Ich life cycle takes 6 weeks so if you leave it without a host for that amount of time, the cycle is broken and no more ich. remember, even if you dont see visible signs on a fish, it can still be carrying it. Here's a good read for more:

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127007

 

[ai-reefer]

Where do you get your water from..is it RO/DI?

Did u use any sort of copper treatmemt?

 

[supertech99]

As long as there are fish in the tank, the parasites can survive even if you do not see the infection they may still be some there. one hatched bug can produce upwards of 200 baby bugs, so if you have one, you will have more rapidly if you have fish hosts. As suggested by yogotti and meintn, leaving your tank without fish host for a period of time (people disagree, go figure 30-60 days) is the only way to be rid of them. The lifecycle is 30 days till death without a host, so most people suggest 6 weeks. I am a ich sufferer because i have never done this. my fish have become rather resistant to it but small outbreaks pop up every once in a blue moon. someday when i have the time ill qt all the fish and treat them and the tank but right now i am lucky to feed and top off the tank. If you don't go fishless you will have them forever, now sounds like a great time to go fishless too! I have a 10gal you can use as a qt if you need it for the chromis

 

[Mikeyjer]

This sounds like something I've gone through before years ago when we first started. Answer some questions for me Hollie!

What size is the tank?
Do you have a sump?
Do you have Powerheads?
Do you have Filtration system and what type?
Do you have live rocks?

Let me know!

 

[HollieR14]

Hi Michael:

we have a 90 gal, 29 gal sump, yes we are using 2 power heads, we have about 100 ls live rock, crabs, snails, protein skimmer in the sump, algae in the sump.

supertech- if we go fishless for 30-60 days what about the corals? also how do you keep the qt tank clean/filtered etc...

 

[Mikeyjer]

Some fish are just finicky with tanks that aren't mature enough. I have dealt with that before. You should really wait it out like it was mentioned for about 3 months for your tank to mature a bit before adding anymore fish to your tank. In a 3 months period, ich should die off with no host, keep on feeding your fish garlic food. I know I've mentioned formula 2 before, but if you have read up on my Ocean Nutrition formula changes, don't count on that RDF formula!!!! I was told by Ocean Nutrition that they are bring back the original formula sometime soon, for how long, I have no idea.... As long as those chromis are eating well and healthy, they should be fine.

 

[supertech99]

Corals are not affected by the ich parasite, neither are inverts. in fact my fireshrimp can be sceen picking them off my coral beauty if an outbreak pops up. I have a small submersiable pump that i keep the sponge to in my sump, whenever i have to qt fish or get a new fish i put it in the qt with fresh saltwater. The problem really comes when you go to treat the fish in the qt for the ich as to not reinfest the big tank when they go back in because most all treatments will kill your bacterial filter in the filter. When I qt i use a small tank because I have to w/c so often because of this. I also use a lot of prime to keep the water nutrients low. I will usually just keep the temp up, keep the water in hyposalinity and leave the lights off for about 30 days and then begin to treat with chemicals towards the end so I dont have to change the water every day. If you do not make sure the fish are ich free when you add them back to the tank, you will still have it, kick ich (reef safe) and copper (not safe at all) can help kill free swimming bugs, garlic and metro (avaliable at critter!) will help with the parasites on the fish. i have also used quick cure (formalin and machlite green) but quick cure and copper kill your bacterial filter so when these are added, watch your levels! i know it sounds evil, but for the cost of a green cromis......you may just want to donate/sell them and go fishless for a while. you could buy 4-6 chromis for what you will spend on treatment products and qt accessories!

 

[Mikeyjer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13872683#post13872683 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by supertech99
Corals are not affected by the ich parasite, neither are inverts. in fact my fireshrimp can be sceen picking them off my coral beauty if an outbreak pops up. I have a small submersiable pump that i keep the sponge to in my sump, whenever i have to qt fish or get a new fish i put it in the qt with fresh saltwater. The problem really comes when you go to treat the fish in the qt for the ich as to not reinfest the big tank when they go back in because most all treatments will kill your bacterial filter in the filter. When I qt i use a small tank because I have to w/c so often because of this. I also use a lot of prime to keep the water nutrients low. I will usually just keep the temp up, keep the water in hyposalinity and leave the lights off for about 30 days and then begin to treat with chemicals towards the end so I dont have to change the water every day. If you do not make sure the fish are ich free when you add them back to the tank, you will still have it, kick ich (reef safe) and copper (not safe at all) can help kill free swimming bugs, garlic and metro (avaliable at critter!) will help with the parasites on the fish. i have also used quick cure (formalin and machlite green) but quick cure and copper kill your bacterial filter so when these are added, watch your levels! i know it sounds evil, but for the cost of a green cromis......you may just want to donate/sell them and go fishless for a while. you could buy 4-6 chromis for what you will spend on treatment products and qt accessories!

I would avoid using formalin and malachite green! IT is harsh to your fish and it doesn't always work. Avoid Copper if you can, depending on the type of fish you want to keep, it can do more harm then good, example, with tangs, it will do damage to their liver. By using medications to treat the issue was my first mistake years ago when I started this hobby. As long as those Green Chromis stays healthy, I would not get rid of them. I still have my green chromis that went through every thing I've done wrong to my tank years ago when I first started it. They went through tank crash, ich, velvet, etc etc. Chemical treatments too! But they stayed healthy and I kept them in the same tank for years now with new fish added with them and no one is sick from ich. I would either stick with garlic treatment or hypo, stay out of medication treatments!!!!