need help with hospital tank 3 weeks so far.

[johar]

hello peeps, to be honest, i googled and googled and googled in order not to be called noob and get flamed >.> however i am really tired since i work and study and barely have time to rest or work on my hobby.

here's some questions, and i hope you peeps are kind enough to help me out.

i decided to buy a hospital tank, even though when i first started this hobby 6 months ago, no one told me that i should -.- and they still say its not something important "shakes head" anyways, one day i found out that my blue tang started to develop white spot and started reading about it, soon enough all my fish started scratching, i have
2 clown fish - one black and one orange,
1 small pufferfish
1 fire goby
1 cardinal
1 blue tang
1 wrass

dead ones - dr fish , blenny and angel fish

all of them died in the hospital tank, now. my problem is that they've been in the hostpial tank for 3 weeks , and i still see no improvement, they white spot come and goes, the concentration of copper is more than 4 ppm thats for sure, and im assuming that its 5 or 6 ppm, im using cupramine , sadly api test kit shows only up to 4 ppm, the amonia level is .25 , the hospital tank is fully established cuz i used water from my main tank and left it for a week with lots of spongs and left the filter running ...

i noticed that they're developing some fungas only the orange clown and blue tank, although im not sure if the blue tank is ich free

1- how do i know the fish have been treated from ich? the other fish arent scratching themselves, and i can see that the wrass is completely spot free

2- once i am sure that they're perfectly fine, which ones shall i move to the main thank first? should i move them all in the same day? i know that i have to acclimate them

3-im changing the water in the hospital tank every 4 days to maintain the cupper level, sadly, i checked all the markets in my country, they only have api test kits , so based on my observation "how many doses needed to reach 1 ppm" i have a guess of the current level. the problem is that i have to guess again after i change the water. any hints? help?

4- should i get another pump for the hospital tank? or rinsing it and operating it in a hot / fresh water and leave it running for few days is more than enough to kill the ich it?

5- i noticed on my pump and mixing water container, i have lots of dried crunchy white salts, no matter how much i clean it, it doesn't go away. is it harmful? i usually apply small filter at the end of the hose

6- i've been skimmerless for the past 3 weeks on my main tank "good or bad idea?" , corals are doing fine, shrimps/craps/snails and lobster are fine as well, the reason im doing it to make the chito and mangrove grow while the fish arent in the tank. i haven't done a test lately , but i will do it tomorrow. and i got few rocks from a friend's refugium that has some copods in it, so far my ref. is filled with them , they're still babies, thats why i dont wanna turn on my skimmer just yet.

7- i have hqi light with 4x blue t5s , which corals you guys think i should stay away from? the water temp is constant at 27-28 c , i can't get a chiller , since my wife hates my tank -.- but im planning to get LED lights when the budgets allow it.

sorry for wasting your time reading these questions , i appreciate the help.

 

[Travis8896]

You have a puffer with inverts? From what I've heard that's not a good idea unless ur trying to feed the puffer the inverts mainly shrimps I'm not sure about lobsters and others

 

[Travis8896]

Please correct me if I'm.wrong

 

[johar]

Hey Travis..... it's
Saddle Valentini Puffer check the info on live aquaria... it neve touched the shrimps.. it does sometime nips on sand snails.. but really peaceful when it's well fed

 

[Travis8896]

Well that's good to know I didn't know which kind it was most other breeds I believe would see the shrimp and think tasty treat

 

[Mrscribbled]

Your most likely getting an ammonia reading due to the copper, it gives a false reading. Main display needs to be without fish 12 weeks. Cupramine is effective .35 ppm but don't exceed .7ppm. Can you order a better test kit online?


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[Dmorty217]

Get a seachem copper test kit, that is the only way cupramine can be properly tested. Also with cupramine use a ammonia badge, that way you always know what the ammonia is and can catch it when it is on the rise. A ammonia detoxifier is a option too. Cupramine shouldn't effect the good bacteria. Don't mix any water conditioners with cupramine

 

[johar]

thanks for replying guys, im ordering seachem copper test kit right now, i do have seachem ammonia badge that i use on both tanks, about the quarantine period, i think i read its from 6 to 8 weeks, mostly a month, but please correct me if im wrong, the water temp is stable at 82f , im not sure if that speeds up the cycle of the ich.

supposed i need to buy some hermet crabs in the future? will i have to quarantine them as well? incase some of them are carrying eggs ? it doesn't make any sense if i have to quarantine both inconvertible and corals >.> for 12 weeks or so "since ich doesn't show and we dont know when the eggs will hatch".

i do mix water conditioner when preparing salt "for 24 hours" sometimes more,
i never thought i'd add ammonia detox since it gives me faulty readings ,
i have but i only add it when im too busy to change the water and the test kit shows .5 ppm

anyways, here's a picture of the blue tang, im still looking for an answer to my questions if someone is willing to help.
thanks

 

[ladyshark]

Please be very careful not to use Prime or other ammonia detoxifiers with Cupramine. It causes the copper levels to escalate and very dangerous to the fish

 

[johar]

Thank you so much for telling me that... I haven't used it on a long time but now I won't use it. How about stress coat. And stress enzyme?

 

[ladyshark]

I really don't know, but would research thoroughly before using anything with copper. There are a couple of very good "sticky" threads at the top of the Fish Disease Forum that I think you would find very helpful and can clarify a lot for you.

 

[triggreef]

Get a seachem copper test kit, that is the only way cupramine can be properly tested. Also with cupramine use a ammonia badge, that way you always know what the ammonia is and can catch it when it is on the rise. A ammonia detoxifier is a option too. Cupramine shouldn't effect the good bacteria. Don't mix any water conditioners with cupramine

Please be very careful not to use Prime or other ammonia detoxifiers with Cupramine. It causes the copper levels to escalate and very dangerous to the fish

I really don't know, but would research thoroughly before using anything with copper. There are a couple of very good "sticky" threads at the top of the Fish Disease Forum that I think you would find very helpful and can clarify a lot for you.

As stated no conditioners with Cu. It changes the structure of the copper and makes it toxic.

IMO ich is still visible in those pics. Well, ich is not visible, the white spots you see are mucus from the fish that is produced as a reaction to ich.

You need to stick with the seachem products, they all work together. If your using Cupramine, you need the ammonia badge, and the seachem copper test kit. Other ammonia tests will give false positives.

Also when changing water, add the copper first before adding new water to the tank. Reason for that is any drop in the level of cupramine can allow an ich cyst to successfully hatch, reinfect a fish, and start the process over. Out of the whole life cycle of the parasite the only time it can be killed is that one day, when the cyst "hatches" and the parasite is looking for the fish. Once on it feeding, cant be killed. Drops off to begin cyst, can't be killed. Forms cyst and waits for a month or 2 to hatch, cant be killed.

That is why checking the copper level everyday is important. Start your clock over once you get a test kit, and treat for a full 4 weeks. Good luck, hope that helps.

Also yes you will need to qt everything, even inverts, if you are looking for a 100% chance of not contracting ich in your display. 12 weeks of time with no fish for those. Same with your display tank to get it out of the system.

 

[johar]

Thanks , the test kit is on the way, like I've stated earlier i do use the badge... Damn it seems that it's gonna be a touch journey… man its gonna be 16 weeks in at, , , the puffer is already losing appetite. N became skinny .. so should I add copper before taking the water from at tank? Wouldn't that make it too concentrated… .I do have a uv.if I put a big enough pump or circulate. The whole water in at.. wouldn't. That kill the cryst?so if ibring a new fish then I should at it for 4weeks while raising the heat if it doesn't show signs then itsok right? But for new corals n invertebrates. It should be 12? Damn having at for hermet crabs for 12 weeks..wow =/

 

[triggreef]

Well your math is off a little. Get the fish out of your display. Now clock starts 12wks. Also would be great time to add inverts to display, since it will be fish less 12 wks thats your invert qt for now. In the mean time treat your fish, 4wks cupramine, then 2weeks prazi. Leaves you 6wks to observe them after treatments before going to your display.

 

[johar]

Thanks for clearing… the main tank has been fishless for 4 weeks now. I stopped using cupramine for now until I get the test kit. I don't know about prazi so I'll google it.. I'm thinking about getting corals n snails

So from now on everything should b at for 12 months as long as its not a fish
Thanks

 

[triggreef]

So from now on everything should b at for 12 months as long as its not a fish
Thanks

weeks

 

[johar]

Lol sorry bout that was replying at 4 am from my tablet but I'll take that advice for sure.
Thanks