need some piping help

[okieman98]

here is a crude sketch of what i have built and the layout , trying to figure out how to pipe it all and how many and where to place and size of pumps i will need. should the fuge pump into main tank are into sump then in main tank. not sure how to route the water flow, any help would be great thanks

 

[MBryant]

Well normally the sump and fuge are one but really it doesn't matter. The majority of systems I've seen including my own, the sump is first, which overflows into a refuge then into a bubble defuser chamber which has the return pump into the main tank

 

[kender]

With Matt on this one. If you are running a skimmer you want your fuge to be after it. So in that instance you would have the flow leaving your dt going to your sump, from sump to fuge, and then from fuge back to dt. The reason for this is because your skimmer will destroy the copepod production done in the fuge. Just my 2 cents. ;-)

 

[papagimp]

based on that drawing, I'd plumb that standalone fuge as if it were another DT tank, sharing the same sump. but that's just me. Not sure on pump sizes though, the fuge will most likely be slower flow through it than the sump.

 

[lauremf2002]

You could plumb them seperately. have each overflow feed to one or the other (or T your overflow with plumbing into each one) and then pumped straight back to the display tank.

 

[Lytehouse]

You could plumb them seperately. have each overflow feed to one or the other (or T your overflow with plumbing into each one) and then pumped straight back to the display tank.

If you do this, the T would allow you to shut down the amount of flow to the fuge giving the water more time in the fuge. More contact time == cleaner water.

 

[okieman98]

ok i do have water returns into the dt from under the bottom, i will have to pipe them in to. i have a vertex in 250 skimmer which stands up high thats the reason for the side cabinet and the 40 breeder would not fit under the stand also. do i need to but some dividers in the sump. here is a updated drawing for water flow so far, also i added some valves for water control are they in the rite place thanks all cant wait getting closer taken me for ever to get this far

[/IMG]

 

[okieman98]

should i pipe the fuge water flow into sumo are in to dt and have it run on its own, and should i but bulk heads in the sump

 

[kender]

I took some liberties with you photo.

 

[okieman98]

kinder thanks for the help but is this for the sump and fuge under tank i am assuming , mine are stacked on the left side like my drawing fuge being the top tank, also it appears there is no water feed into the fuge, just out flow, and to plum that way it looks like i would need 3 pumps right

and please take all the liberty's with my photos u need kinda racking my brain on a good water flow with how i have to stack the tanks

thanks

 

[kender]

Its only two pumps. This would still work if they are on the side. The plumbing would just be a little different. Let me modify it a little more. brb

 

[kender]

Here you go. If you need any help with plumbing I would be more than happy to assist you. ^_^

 

[lauremf2002]

Kender, Im sorry but I dont see how this would work. You would have to have the pump in the sump pumping the exact same amount of water as the pump in the fuge (impossible) or it would overflow/run dry. Personally, for simplicity sake I would just run one overflow to the fuge and pump it back to dt and one overflow to the sump and pumped back to dt. It would be practical and efficient. Otherwise, because of the way your fuge is stacked on your sump you could have both overflows go to fuge and have an overflow (or drill fuge) to drain into sump with one return pump back up to dt. You would only need one return pump this way! NE way you cant pump water into something AND pump it out. The pumps will never match up. Use gravity to your advantage to move water into things and only use pumps to get water back to dt. Just my 2 cents...

 

[kender]

That where the check valves and the control valves come into play. Since your can throttle the output of the pump you can control what is going into the fuge and have it match the pump pumping out of the fuge. Although I think I misunderstood what you suggested earlier and I agree that running the fuge and the sump off separate lines would be way more simplistic. I can think of a few different ways to run the plumbing on this setup just as I can wire my entertainment system multiple ways and get the same result. Heck, you should see the plumbing on my tank lol. Let me redesign it to what you where suggesting.

 

[okieman98]

go for it would love the simplest way

thanks all

 

[kender]

So I think this is what Lynn and Lauren are suggesting if I understand it right.

 

[papagimp]

is the fuge you show in your original pic level with the DT tank? Cause if so, the latest suggestion isn't going to work, gravity only pulls the one way You'd almost have to let the fuge gravity feed to the sump and the return from the sump feed the fuge, course gravity feeding the fuge to the sump, you could always pump from the DT to the fuge as well, but would seem a little unsightly to have a pump in the DT for just this purpose and not neccessary imo.

If the fuge is low enough to gravity feed from the display though, than yeah, that last suggestion is a decent option. Although I'm not sure why you went with control valves on the incoming water instead of the outgoing return lines (with a T back to the source to control return pump flow).

also in total agreement over that second suggestion kender, no way in the world you'd ever match incoming and outgoing flow rates even with a very precise valve controling flow. get it .0001 gph off and it'll eventually flood something.

just my 2 cents

Okie, is their anyway to get an actual picture of the setup so far? Might help cut out some of my confusion anyways.

 

[jpitts101]

Jeff: Thats a lot of risk just for a skimmer. Can you not plumb the skimmer externally? It looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Your more than welcome to come check out my plumbing to get an idea or two. Our tank dimensions are the same or close. If ive learned anything from this hobby its to keep it as simple as possible being you will want to upgrade, change or have to fix something at some time or another.

 

[okieman98]

yah i will get out there tomorrow and set it up and take a photo, so everyone can see.

is the fuge you show in your original pic level with the DT tank? Cause if so, the latest suggestion isn't going to work, gravity only pulls the one way You'd almost have to let the fuge gravity feed to the sump and the return from the sump feed the fuge, course gravity feeding the fuge to the sump, you could always pump from the DT to the fuge as well, but would seem a little unsightly to have a pump in the DT for just this purpose and not neccessary imo.

If the fuge is low enough to gravity feed from the display though, than yeah, that last suggestion is a decent option. Although I'm not sure why you went with control valves on the incoming water instead of the outgoing return lines (with a T back to the source to control return pump flow).

also in total agreement over that second suggestion kender, no way in the world you'd ever match incoming and outgoing flow rates even with a very precise valve controling flow. get it .0001 gph off and it'll eventually flood something.

just my 2 cents

Okie, is their anyway to get an actual picture of the setup so far? Might help cut out some of my confusion anyways.

 

[kender]

Although I'm not sure why you went with control valves on the incoming water instead of the outgoing return lines (with a T back to the source to control return pump flow)

Mainly did this as a method to be able to shut down the overflow I actually have control valves going both ways on my setup.