New Angelfish- strange morph...

[jmaneyapanda]

So, I visited a local store in Atlanta recently, and the owner (knowing I keep rarities), shows me a conspic, a garibaldi, this and that. Then he says, "Well, Ive got this weird Blueface hybrid. The supplier told me it was a blueface/sixbar". So I go to look, and it certainly does look unusual. So I grabbed him. Any thoughts?
It definitely lacks the yellowed coloration of the caudal fin and the posterior anal and dorsal fin. According to Endoh's Angelfish book, the sixbars and bluefaces will hybridize, but I am hesitant of such claims.

 

[tcmfish]

There is also no spot that most bluefaces have on the dorsal fin. Crazy Fish! Nice grab!! There also looks to be some striping toward the posterior end, which a blueface wouldn't have and a sixstripe would. Interesting for sure. You lucky dog.

 

[myerst2]

Nice Fish Jeremey. Is that some HLLE on the fish? How big is the fish? Wonder if it is done changing color? T

 

[SDguy]

Very interesting! Looks a bit beat up around the back of the head? Anyways, certainly a very significant morph of just a blueface, if it's not a hybrid....

 

[jmaneyapanda]

No, it isnt HLLE or injury, its his coloration. Very pale. Hes about 3.5, maybe 4".

 

[blface]

"The supplier told me it was a blueface/sixbar"

That would be my guess also. I've raised quite a few juvi's to adult colors &
have never seen one w/ that color of caudal fin & especially the dark bars on
the back portion of the fish.
Nice find!!

Hopefully Copps will see this & post his thoughts about it.

 

[Bonta]

I love its colors. Nice fish !

 

[jmaneyapanda]

"The supplier told me it was a blueface/sixbar"

That would be my guess also. I've raised quite a few juvi's to adult colors &
have never seen one w/ that color of caudal fin & especially the dark bars on
the back portion of the fish.
Nice find!!

Hopefully Copps will see this & post his thoughts about it.

Yes, am very familiar with grow out of this genus, however, I am just feel it may not be completely appropriate to immediate call (and sell) this fish as a hybrid. If scopas tangs can be yellow, and queen angels can be koi colored, and clownfish can variy from all black to all white within a species, who says Blue face angels can lack the ocellus and yellow, and show some barring? This is the only reason I express my doubts.

 

[ccampbell57]

Jeremy that is a great pickup! I think that it will be a stunning adult if the spots of the sixbar come out, the body remains pale and the blueface is pronounced.

Man I wish I was in Atlanta right now

 

[blface]

I know you will never be sure if it's a true hybrid but it's definetly different.
Like I stated before I've seen many bluefaces, hince my user name, over
the years but never one w/ those color traits. Missing the ocellus is quite
common. It's the bars that really intrigue me. I look forward to seeing if
it changes any more.

 

[mrk1260]

Very cool looking fish.

 

[Luiz Rocha]

I know you will never be sure if it's a true hybrid but it's definetly different.
Like I stated before I've seen many bluefaces, hince my user name, over
the years but never one w/ those color traits. Missing the ocellus is quite
common. It's the bars that really intrigue me. I look forward to seeing if
it changes any more.

If you want to be sure that it is a hybrid keep sending us photos, the adults should show intermediate colors too. Also, when he dies (hopefully years from now ) freeze it and send it to me, I will gladly run a DNA test to see if its a hybrid.

 

[regina574]

Wow! That is an amazing fish! Great find!

 

[AuroraDrvr]

I don't necessarily see any Six Bar in this specimen. I'm thinking some type of morph.

 

[Chelsey]

Phenominal fish! I wish I could find stuff like that around here!

 

[HomeSlizzice]

Nice!

 

[tcmfish]

I don't necessarily see any Six Bar in this specimen. I'm thinking some type of morph.

I think he is right. There is no color in the tail which a sixbar would have. And the dorsal and anal fins are very rounded like a blueface and not as tall and pointed toward the tail as in the sixbar. Weird fish but does look to be a blueface morph. Also there is no white bar and dark face as in the sixbar and you can see the yellow and blue matrix of the blueface coming through.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

I think he is right. There is no color in the tail which a sixbar would have. And the dorsal and anal fins are very rounded like a blueface and not as tall and pointed toward the tail as in the sixbar. Weird fish but does look to be a blueface morph. Also there is no white bar and dark face as in the sixbar and you can see the yellow and blue matrix of the blueface coming through.

This is kinda my entire issue with the "quick draw" hybrid claims. Its not like hybrids will be front half species A, and ad back half species B. In this case, While sexstriatus may have angular fins and or certain coloration, does lack of them prove or disprove hybridization? How or who can make the "decision" between a hybrid and an anomolous morphology? And what is the "cut off point"? An original question of mine- if a scopas tang can be yellow, a yellow tang can be white, and Centropyge species can be amazingly variable within their coloration, who says a blueface angel cant be washed out on the hind end? Why does this always seem to immediately defer to "hybrid".

Luiz Rocha, you mentioned DNA testing. To what do you compare? Is there a bank or code amassed for all species? Or do you compare to a fresh sample of species A and species B? Also, I recently read that the DNA for two different sppecies currently (scopas tang and yellow tang) as functionally identical, so can we assume that such species will have evidentally visible differences?

 

[SDguy]

I dunno... I don't think people are immediately jumping to the hybrid conclusion in this thread Or are you referring to the seller of the fish?

 

[tcmfish]

This fish is probably a morph because there is no phenotypic input from both species. If it showed a mix of the phenotypes it would more likely be a hybrid. I think it is a little more difficult with tangs because of the lack of pattern. Like a yellow scopas tang IMO that could be a hybrid yellow and scopas, but I am not sure where they come from. They could come from a location where there are no yellow tangs which would point to morph. The white yellow tangs and queen angels... well what other tang or angel could they hybridize to produce that offspring... none IMO. Hence the morph. With the Centropyge hybrids (angels have more pattern usually) you can see the mixing of patterns from the parent species. You could see the darker yellow due to the rust color of the fishers and the clear tail from the fishers, but still had the orange across the back and mostly blue body like a resplendent just darker.

Your fish is most likely just missing some color and it seems that some of these angels revert back in captivity, like copps blue angel, and the bicolor angels that have aberrant coloration. So it will be interesting to see what coloration it turns out as it grows.