New aquascaping
- Thread starter KalimanMX
- Start date
I see the power head--but back to my original question--if the rocks sat in the sand, as in nature, water movement, whatever it is, will swirl around the rocks, nothing can accumulate under the LR, and it negates the need for a powerhead! I just don't quite understand why anyone would create a problem (lifting the LR) in order to compensate by using a powerhead. What is the gain here? BTW, if any livestock ever gets under the LR in that space and dies there, for whatever reason, I doubt that the PH has enough velocity to blow it clear. Cool idea, but to me, uneccesary, IMO. Thanks....Barry
The problem is that rocks are generally not perfectly flat on the bottom. There always is a small space underneath to catch detrititus when they are sitting on the sand. I'd say this is the case with at least 90% of the rocks people use. Also, the surface of the rock that is pushed into the sand becomes useless as far as filtration. That's why you see people saying that with more open rockwork you can use less liverock in a tank. All of the surface area gets used.
-Clark
-Clark
Don't mean to be picky, but the small fraction of surface lost to bottom of rock sitting in sand in almost of no consequence compared to headache of rotting livestock caught underneath, IMO. And in order to stabilize any LR that is set up in a sand bed, you would squiggle it into the sand enough that there really wouldn't be any space underneath. That said, it's not that big a deal either way, and I understand the thinking of placing LR on an elevated rack. I wouldn't, but I understand other trying it.
Alaskan Reefer
New member
I too vote for the minimilast approach to live rock. I started with twice as much planned, and stopped once I hit this point because I liked the openness so much.
Here is the PVC stand I made for the right side (which is exactly what's on the left, minus the extensions for the peninsula) just so you can see the height.
The extra LR can always be used in the sump...
Here is the PVC stand I made for the right side (which is exactly what's on the left, minus the extensions for the peninsula) just so you can see the height.
The extra LR can always be used in the sump...
elwaine
The mad reefer
Barry, in nature, rocks do not sit in 2 - 6 inches of sand. In nature, sand beds are DEEP and there are literally tons and tons of sand dwelling detritus eating things living in the sand... plus there are just a few more gallons of water in nature than in our tanks... and nature's powerheads are way cool.
If you think that nothing accumulates under LR sitting in the sand beds of our tanks, you are in for a surprise when you re-do your aquascape or dismantle your system.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but it is folly to think that our aquariums mirror nature except in superficial ways. Hence the many varieties of artificial systems that have been developed to get our water quality as close as possible to that found in natural reefs. Deep sand beds (6 inches or so), bare bottom tanks, rubble bottom, 1 - 2 inch sand beds with or without elevating the rocks on PVC (either as "sliced rounds" of PVC drilled for circulation, or on tubular structures such as above), and even the (shudder) plenum, all have their proponents and detractors.
Alaskan Reefer
New member
Mine is on racks to allow maximum swimming space for fish, and to maximize filtration effectiveness. I don't prefer the look, I'm neutral there -- I just wanted a happy tang (125 to me is bare minimum on size) and as clean an environment possible while still having sand. With my flow pattern, the area behind the reef structure has become bare bottom, which for what I'm trying to do is perfect -- no way anything accumulates there, and I can still have the tank look like it's got sand everywhere.
Another idea I had was to drill holes in the PVC structure, and hook a pump up to it -- if I'd had the time I might have done it on this one. You could create awesome flow underneath your reef structure that way...
Another idea I had was to drill holes in the PVC structure, and hook a pump up to it -- if I'd had the time I might have done it on this one. You could create awesome flow underneath your reef structure that way...
I really like the change, it looks great. I wouldn't be too concerned with the ph or a little pvc showing, we all have small (or large) issues and this is most definitely small.
When I put my tank together most people where jamming their tanks with tons of rock. I'm glad I chose to go with what I liked and went with it, also glad to see trends changing >less is more<
Beautiful you should be proud
When I put my tank together most people where jamming their tanks with tons of rock. I'm glad I chose to go with what I liked and went with it, also glad to see trends changing >less is more<
Beautiful you should be proud
Alaskan Reefer
New member
The PVC will encrust with coraline anyway and will disappear in a year or so.
Joshthenosh
New member
take a look at this for aquascaping euro style
I rellay like that rockwork!!...
Im thinking how i can mod mine, maybe i get rid of some rocks an get some better ones that will letme do some nice caves, like the "euro style" more ez...
So if you have more ideas... tell them plz
BTW so far the tank is gettin better and the skimmer work like crazy... now the nitrates are in 5...
Im thinking how i can mod mine, maybe i get rid of some rocks an get some better ones that will letme do some nice caves, like the "euro style" more ez...
So if you have more ideas... tell them plz
BTW so far the tank is gettin better and the skimmer work like crazy... now the nitrates are in 5...
Epoxy , You can take a hammer to the rocks .
I'm in favor of setting the rocks in , then putting the sand in around the rocks . It took me awhile to get my tanks layout set . I changed the layout over and over .
I also have a 75 and you can have a layout thats got an open look to it . Try and visulize what its going to look like once the tank matures .
Good luck
Rick
I'm in favor of setting the rocks in , then putting the sand in around the rocks . It took me awhile to get my tanks layout set . I changed the layout over and over .
I also have a 75 and you can have a layout thats got an open look to it . Try and visulize what its going to look like once the tank matures .
Good luck
Rick
sttroyiii
Premium Member
I havent heard anyone say about the surface area of the sand being opened up. Im not positive on this, but doesnt a larger surface area of sand help, as well as rock? It seems just as likely to me for something to die in a rock crevice compared to under the rocks of a lifted system. At least you can grab a power head and blow something dead out, as opposed to a rock on substrate setup where you have to pick up the rocks.
In the 'euro' reef pictures, there were some zip-ties I saw. Do those get covered up well?
In the 'euro' reef pictures, there were some zip-ties I saw. Do those get covered up well?
143gadgets
New member
Nice!!! I like it.
elwaine
The mad reefer
If you don't overload the system to begin with (i.e., keep the total bio-mass well in proportion to the total # of gallons of circulating water, filtration capacity, etc.) then an occasional death of a critter in the tank - whether inside rock caves or crevices, or under elevated LR on PVC - will be taken care of by your reef janitors and the tank will not suffer from pollution.
Your second question: yes, the plastic ties will encrust with coraline algae.
Alaskan Reefer
New member
My racks are capped with end plugs, except for the bottoms -- had to leave at least two holes or the things would float. I'd be leery about any openings anywhere other than the tank bottom.
elwaine
The mad reefer
That's an interesting question. I remember reading (somewhere here on RC) that racks can be plumbed to have water circulating through them. If water does not circulate through the pipe, you run the risk of creating anoxic zones (similar to the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œplenumââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ concept). For the first several years, those anoxic zones will house beneficial bacteria and will actually promote a healthy nitrogen cycle. But eventually, toxic sludge build up in anoxic zones may actually poison the tankââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ which is why plenums are looked down upon by some.
There is also an entirely different way to use PVC to elevate the rocks - at least, the base layer of LR - and that is to use 2" or 2.5" diameter PVC that you cut into short sections of "ventilated" pipe. In this manner you simply create a number of "stands" for the LR. You are not building a frame.
For example, if the sand bed is 2 inches deep, you cut the PVC into sections that are at least 2.25" in height, if you like the idea of circulating water beneath the LR... or 2" in height if you simply wish to elevate the LR to the level of the top of your sand. Then drill several 1/4 inch or larger holes into each section of pipe to allow sand dwelling critters access to the sand inside the pipe sections so that there is no stagnation or build up of waste within the buried sections of pipe. Finally, add sand and then place the base layer of LR on top of the PVC pipe sections.
When I set up my 37 g reef, I decided just to place my LR on the tank bottom and then add sand, but when I eventually get a larger tank, I will elevate the LR as described above. For one thing, the LR is so expensive that it is a shame to bury 2 or 3 (or more) inches of it in the sand.
killerwhale0217
In Memoriam
Alaskan Reefer has an awesome design going for him... I have a 90 aga mega flow and wanna do something like this. But my thing is I just moved and reset up my tank in a 24 hour period and have some yuma ricordia and some zoas on smaller pieces and was thinking about leaving them in there and buy a 40 pound piece of marshall Island live rock and adding it to the tank... I shouldnt have any problems should I for the rock? Its already cured. Any suggestions would be great too and I will post my rack once its made. thanks
